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#116780 - 11/28/03 03:07 PM Butter
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
Everybody knows what butter is. You agitate cream sufficiently and the little globs of fat come out and stick together and then you spead that all over bread or fry in it. That's butter.

I have a jar of what I would call "preserves" which declares itself, on the label, to be "fruit butter." The hell you say!? In what sense can fruit make butter?

If the etymology of the word "butter" is all about cows and cheese (which I think it is), then how does one get from those word origins to a smear of mushed raspberries?




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#116781 - 11/28/03 03:12 PM Re: Butter
Jackie Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Dear F.S.--think peanut butter! This is one for Helen, I think.


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#116782 - 11/28/03 03:27 PM Re: Butter
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
... which is doubtless why other parts of the English-speaking world called whirled peanuts "peanut paste" rather than "peanut butter" -- 'cause it ain't butter, either.





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#116783 - 11/28/03 03:55 PM Re: Butter
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
I think folks are just trying to be consistent...



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#116784 - 11/28/03 05:01 PM Re: Butter
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
I've also seen apple butter.


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#116785 - 11/28/03 05:05 PM Re: Butter
Father Steve Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
I've also seen apple butter.

... another quality food product brought to you by Steve Jobs and Steven Wozniak.





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#116786 - 11/28/03 06:40 PM Re: Butter
Jenet Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 81
I was startled to learn (learn? if it's true I learnt, otherwise I merely read) that peanut butter was invented as a subsitute for... can I call it milk butter? As a spread, anyway. Black American biologist... Booker Washington, was it? So butter (of any kind) is long-chain fatty acids with things done to them to make them solidify. Therefore you can do it to peanuts (arachidonic acid)... so just maybe some fruits have fats in them that... oh wait, I've ventured into The Implausible. I don't know.


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#116787 - 11/28/03 07:41 PM Re: Butter
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
The Implausible

though we generally venture into The InClauseable around here, we occasionally get to the Implausible, as well. it's a fun place, as I recall...

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#116788 - 11/28/03 10:53 PM Re: Butter
sjmaxq Offline
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Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 3230
Loc: Te Ika a Maui
In reply to:


... which is doubtless why other parts of the English-speaking world called whirled peanuts "peanut paste" rather than "peanut butter" -



What other parts, pray tell? This little part of the English-speaking world has called it peanut butter for at least the last 33 years (as long as I can remember eating it)

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#116789 - 11/29/03 01:33 AM Re: Butter
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
It is those silly Aussies who call it peanut paste.




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#116790 - 11/29/03 02:56 AM Re: Butter
dellfarmer Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/13/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Vermont (US)
Well, then; enough said.

Ron.
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#116791 - 11/29/03 09:33 AM Re: Butter
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
well, father steve, you're right that butter does have an etymology that brings it back to cows..and cheese. but the American heritage dictionary, right from the start has (see highlight) fruit and nuts spreads called butters.

and there is also the mineral, butter of antimony, which is a soft metal, and called a butter.


BUTTER
NOUN: 1. A soft yellowish or whitish emulsion of butterfat, water, air, and sometimes salt, churned from milk or cream and processed for use in cooking and as a food. 2. Any of various substances similar to butter, especially: a. A spread made from fruit, nuts, or other foods: apple butter. b. A vegetable fat having a nearly solid consistency at ordinary temperatures. 3. Flattery.

ETYMOLOGY: Middle English butere, from Old English, from Latin btrum, from Greek boutron : bous, cow; see gwou- in Appendix I + tros, cheese; see teu- in Appendix I.

also see
butyraceous

SYLLABICATION: bu·ty·ra·ceous
PRONUNCIATION: byt-rshs
ADJECTIVE: Resembling butter in appearance, consistency, or chemical properties.
ETYMOLOGY: Latin btrum, butter; see butter + –aceous.


in the US, the FDA (food and drug administraion) regulate 'food terms' so producers can't just call anything 'preserves' --preserves have to have chunks of fruit, preserved in a thick syrup created with sugar and pectin. Jam is crushed fruit, or fruit puree in sugar and pectin, and jelly is clear fruit juice, thickened with sugar and pectin. all the 'defination' indicate how much fruit there is to be in relation to sugar... i don't think they have a 'defination' for fruit butter, (they might) Schmuckers makes 'just fruit spread' its made with consentrated fruit juice (instead of sugar) and it can't be called 'jam' or 'jelly' (which they make an 'issue' of in the commercial.--without explaining why it can't be called jelly)

Apple butter would clearly be 'jam' since it contains pureed apples, not chunks, or whole apples. strawberry preserves (and raspberry, etc) have to have chunks or whole fruit.

there is a defination for marmalade too, (what percentage of fruit to peel, to sugar) but i never made marmalade, so i never read up about it.

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#116792 - 11/30/03 07:29 PM Re: Butter
WhitmanO'Neill Offline
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Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 4189
Loc: Rio Grande, Cape May County, N...
>2. Any of various substances similar to butter, especially: a. A spread made from fruit, nuts, or other foods: apple butter. b. A vegetable fat having a nearly solid consistency at ordinary temperatures.<

So, then, by this definition wouldn't paté qualify as butter...as in liver butter? mmmm...yum



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#116793 - 11/30/03 07:38 PM Re: Butter
stales Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 866
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
"What other parts, pray tell?"

and

"It is those silly Aussies who call it peanut paste."


There's variation throughout the country. Growing up in Sydney, New South Wales, I called it "peanut butter". This was common usage; despite the fact my English father called it "paste".

Arriving in Western Australia in 1984 I noted it was called "peanut paste". I even recall that "paste" was used on the label of the same brand we'd bought in NSW; pandering to the local market nae doot.

And what about lemon butter? (Or lemon "curd" according to the English parent). Food of the gods. Eggs (lots of them), sugar (cups of it), butter and lemon juice. Yum!! Sold at school fetes, roadside produce stalls and CWA (Country Womens' Association) matrons in their eternal fundraising quests to improve their community facilities. Tried the commercially produced stuff once (25 years ago) but it was rubbish so am on my own eternal quest; stopping at every roadside stall on my trips away - just to grab all the marmalade and lemon butter on offer!

stales


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#116794 - 11/30/03 07:44 PM Re: Butter
sjmaxq Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 3230
Loc: Te Ika a Maui
>It is those silly Aussies who call it peanut paste.

Thanks, padre, but I'm still waiting to find out what parts of the English-speaking world call it peanut paste.

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#116795 - 11/30/03 08:05 PM Re: Butter
Father Steve Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
There are those who doubt (with good reason) that the US of A is a nation in which English is spoken.




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#116796 - 11/30/03 08:19 PM Re: Butter
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Or either the only place, one.


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#116797 - 12/01/03 03:19 PM Re: Butter
Zed Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
I think the difference between fruit butters and jams etc. is the cooking method which doesn't involve pectin. The fruit is cooked into a thick paste but doesn't jell(y). The term butter is descriptive, it spreads, rather than etymolgical. After all creamed corn has no cream (so now they have to call it "cream-style corn" in Canada").
Incidentially in the Netherlands you find "pinderkaas" which translates as peanut cheese.


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#116798 - 12/01/03 03:23 PM Re: Speaking of style
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
We bought some "hand made style" tortillas the other day.

Cream, on the other hand, has no etymological connection with dairy products.

http://www.bartleby.com/61/23/C0732300.html


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#116799 - 12/02/03 08:26 AM Re: Butter
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
Re:After all creamed corn has no cream (so now they have to call it "cream-style corn" in Canada").


fresh corn, as its cut off the cob, exudes its own 'milk' a white liquid with about 4 percent fat--and some starch and other proteins. creamed corn, (old fashioned creamed corn) was corn that was shucked, and skin of the kernals broken, so that they would leak this milk, and the corn was then cooked its its own 'milk' which thickened as it evaporated, making a 'cream sause'.

there is no cream in cream of wheat, but ground wheat will also make a creamy gruel-- by a different process than creamed corn, but it still has a cream name. Does Canada require the breakfast cereal to be called cream-style of wheat?

other fruits & vegetable also have milk and cream--most spectacularly, coconuts.
(and soybeans, and peanuts, and almolds, to name a few others)

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#116800 - 12/03/03 10:51 PM Re: Butter
hev Offline
addict

Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 477
Loc: Sydney, Australia
It is those silly Aussies who call it peanut paste.

Well, I'm going to disown stales Hi, stales, how the heck are ya? and say that never in my 32 years of living have I called Peanut Butter anything but Peanut Butter.

Father Steve, mind yer language!

Oh, and mango butter is to die for!

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#116801 - 12/03/03 11:14 PM Re: Butter
Father Steve Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
See! Even the Aussies are one people divided by a common language!




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#116802 - 12/10/03 03:40 PM One more
wofahulicodoc Offline
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Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 5196
Loc: Worcester, MA
and a dollar short, too

...and let's not forget "cocoa butter," too



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#116803 - 12/10/03 05:09 PM Re: One more
musick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 2658
Loc: Chicago
Chili butter.


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#116804 - 12/10/03 05:12 PM Chili butter
Father Steve Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA

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#116805 - 12/12/03 08:36 AM Re: Chili butter
RhubarbCommando Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
Just to add my tuppence-worth, I had never, until this thread, heard the stuff called 'Peanut paste' - always 'butter' over in UK.
Pretty vile stuff, too - except as a substitute for tahini in hummous.


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#116806 - 12/12/03 09:12 AM Re: Peanut butter
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
except as a substitute for tahini in hummous

Yeow!! Gotta give that a try! Thanks Rhuby.


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#116807 - 12/12/03 04:22 PM Chickpea paste
Father Steve Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
If one suffered indigestion after eating a paste of chickpeas, olive oil, garlic, lemon juice and tahini, would it be properly described as post-houmous?



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#116808 - 12/12/03 04:24 PM Re: Chickpea paste
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
only if one were dead.

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#116809 - 12/14/03 09:20 PM Re: Butter
stales Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 866
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
See! Even the Aussies are one people divided by a common language!

We are also common people divided by one language!!

stales

And Hev - don't disown me - note that I said I called it Peanut Butter throughout my 27 years in NSW. It's the sandgropers that called it peanut paste (in the 80s at least) and, as I recall, you haven't lived here (yet)?



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