#115745 - 11/12/03 02:47 PM
Re: "have got"?
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addict
Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 555
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to my mind...
have got an idea - probably implies obtaining help from outside apart from one's own effort
have an idea - implies pure creativity. An idea that is truly self inspired.
Any takers?
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#115747 - 11/12/03 06:16 PM
Re: have too got class
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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I may be lower but I have got class.
Seriously ,tho' we do use have to modify the tense of other verbs (I have been using it), why not this one?
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#115748 - 11/13/03 12:50 AM
Re: "have got"?
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
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'Have got' always indicates possession, but 'have' need not do so. For example: She's got a bath (not just a shower) v. She has a bath (every morning).
Bingley
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Bingley
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#115749 - 11/13/03 07:39 AM
Re: "have got"?
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newbie
Registered: 10/13/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Vermont (US)
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I agree with Bingly here. "Have got" should imply possession or receipt. People often say, for example, "I've got a cold," but, grammatically speaking, they'd be more correct to say "I have a cold."
In a slightly different context, one might say, for example, "I was with my ailing nephew, and now I've gotten a cold." Note, however that one would use "gotten" here, instead of got.
Similarly, I think, one might say, "I got it in the mail," to express receipt of a letter; but one could say, "I have gotten it in the mail," to imply that the letter is now in possession of the lettercarrier.
Occasionally, I think, it's fairly common usage to use have got for emphasis, as in: "You have GOT to be kidding!"
The 'have got' construction has been around forever. I remember the old TV program I've Got A Secret. When we were learning our grammar, way back then, I called this to my teacher's attention and, though she was a pretty strict grammarian herself, she admitted that this had escaped her notice, gave me extra points for my vigilance.
Interestingly enough, the show was sponsored by a cigarette company (yes, I'm that old), whose catch-phrase was "Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should". This, of course, should be: ...as a cigarette should.
But I digress.
Ron.
_________________________
Ron.
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#115751 - 11/13/03 10:36 AM
Re: "have got"?
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
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As the doughty sunshine warrior (??) says, we were taught at school that ‘got’ used in this sense was redundant and not proper usage. “He told me to get it, so I got it” was just about acceptable, but rather an ugly construction and it was safest to avoid ‘got’ altogether. It is, nevertheless, frequently used.
‘Gotten’ is strictly US usage and I don’t think I have heard it used here in the UK other than in fun.
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#115753 - 11/13/03 12:14 PM
Re: "have got"?
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addict
Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 555
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Is no one other than me (sorry shanks, ..myself  ) getting a strong feeling of 'procure' with 'have got'?
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#115755 - 11/13/03 07:29 PM
Re: "have got"?
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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I agree with Bingly here. "Have got" should imply possession or receipt. People often say, for example, "I've got a cold," but, grammatically speaking, they'd be more correct to say "I have a cold."
In a slightly different context, one might say, for example, "I was with my ailing nephew, and now I've gotten a cold." Note, however that one would use "gotten" here, instead of got.
yabut, yabut,
how come you can say "I am with my nephew."(who is very cute by the way) meaning present tense.
and "I was with..." meaning past tense that ended in the past.
and "I have been with ..." meaning past tense that extends to or stops at the present. OR emphasis ("I have so been with...")
and "I have" present
and "I got" past
but not "I have got" continuing past or emphasis.
Why shouldn't you use "have" to modify the verb for "be in possesion of" in the same way it modifies other verbs.
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#115758 - 11/13/03 08:59 PM
Re: It's hoi polloi time again
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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"He has been being got at." Parse that, professor 
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#115760 - 11/13/03 09:43 PM
Re: It's hoi polloi time again
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enthusiast
Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 320
Loc: Sarasota, Florida, US
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Why do I keep thinking about this old ditty? (As a lyricist Tom Lehrer's really got the stuff.)
I love my friends and they love me
We're just as close as we can be
And just because we really care
Whatever we get, we share!
I got it from Agnes
She got it from Jim
We all agree it must have been
Louise who gave it to him
Now she got it from Harry
Who got it from Marie
And ev'rybody knows that Marie
Got it from me
Giles got it from Daphne
She got it from Joan
Who picked it up in County Cork
A-kissin' the Blarney Stone
Pierre gave it to Shiela
Who must have brought it there
He got it from Francois and Jacques
Aha, lucky Pierre!
Max got it from Edith
Who gets it ev'ry spring
She got it from her Daddy
Who just gives her ev'rything
She then gave it to Daniel
Whose spaniel has it now
Our dentist even got it
And we're still wondering how
But I got it from Agnes
Or maybe it was Sue
Or Millie or Billie or Gillie or Willie
It doesn't matter who
It might have been at the pub
or at the club, or in the loo
And if you will be my friend, then I might ...
(Mind you, I said "might" ...)
Give it to you!
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#115761 - 11/14/03 12:05 AM
Re: "have got"?
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
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Nobody ever told me that 'have got' was common. We were advised not to use too many gets in succession (avoid: I got up early but by the time I got downstairs my brother had got all the good cereal. I got my own back when we were getting on the bus because I got him all embarrassed in front of this girl he wants to get off with .....).
The get passive is mainly used in speaking and is useful. It's only used for actions and not states so it resolves the ambiguity in "The window was broken". Are we talking about the fact that the window was in several pieces or about something that happened to the unoffending pane of glass? If we say "The window got broken", it must mean the latter. It seems a perfectly natural extension of the difference between "She was drunk" and "She got drunk."
I think passives with get also imply that without actually performing the action, the subject (if animate) did do something to bring the action about. For example, there is a much stronger implication of misbehaviour in "He got arrested" than in "He was arrested".
Bingley
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Bingley
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#115767 - 11/14/03 08:32 AM
Re: snow
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7184
Loc: Vermont
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well, we done got about a foot on the ground, and the 40mph winds have given us two and three foot drifts. Marnie and I were talking about the word "drift" as being unequal to the task of describing the process. it's much too gentle. these were some pretty good breezes...
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formerly known as etaoin...
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#115769 - 11/14/03 04:21 PM
Re: "have got"?
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member
Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
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there's also "she got married" vs "she was married." My Harper's English Grammar suggests that got should not be used in place of was. BTW, I hope I didn't offend anyone with my observation that have got sounds common to me. I know I've used it myself at times. It's just that I was taught not to. Likely I should not have said anything about it. My bad. 
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#115770 - 11/14/03 05:27 PM
Re: "have got"?
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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Relax gift horse, all you did was start a conversation.
re "She got married" vs. "She was married" They don't mean the same thing to me. "Was" refers to a state of being whereas "got" refers to the action complete with rice throwing and mother crying. (And "She was married" refers it to lawyers)
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#115771 - 11/14/03 07:50 PM
Re: "have got"?
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addict
Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 555
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I guess it is the context, Zed. 'She was married on a bright Sunday morning', versus, 'She got married on a bright Sunday morning'.
aside: In 'she got married', the 'got' fits Bingley's 'in possession of', rather neatly, doesn't it. She got herself a husband. {hurried exit}
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#115772 - 11/14/03 07:57 PM
Re: "have got"?
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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maahey and he got himself a treasure [hearts, flowers and violins -e]
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#115773 - 11/16/03 11:12 PM
Re: "have got"?
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veteran
Registered: 11/22/00
Posts: 1289
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As soon as I read this post, there started up in my head,
"I've got rhythm, I've got music .....".
What do y'all make of that usage?
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#115776 - 11/17/03 06:41 PM
Re: "have got"?
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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Great romantic dance song...if memory serves. *sigh*Technically it was before my time, but I do love old-fashioned social dancing. Waltzes, and fox-trots and all. We have ballroom around but it's not quite the same, less about dancing well and more about dancing "correctly". I was born a generation too late. My father told me about the late 40's and early 50's when there was a dance every night except Sunday. Because of the LOrd's Day act you couldn't shold a dance on Sunday - but you could start one at 12:01 AM on Monday. 
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#115778 - 11/17/03 07:16 PM
Re: Gotta dance!
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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Hey Twin,
Come to vancouver and I'll introduce you to the dance scene here.
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#115780 - 11/17/03 11:25 PM
Re: "have got"?
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veteran
Registered: 11/22/00
Posts: 1289
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You're probably right, Faldage, but I know I've heard "Ive got" as well as "I got". Do we need to consult the original Gershwin MS?
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#115781 - 11/18/03 08:02 AM
You're both right
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member
Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
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Here are the lyrics:
I Got Rhythm
Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald
In this fast and troubled world we sometimes lose our way
But I am never lost I feel this way because...
I got rhythm, I got music, I got my girl
Who could ask for anything more?
I've got good times, no more bad times
I've got my girl, who could ask for anything more?
Old man trouble I don't mind him
You won't find him around my door
I've got starlight, I've got sweet dreams
I've got my girl, who could ask for, who could ask for more?
Old man trouble, I don't mind him
You won't find, you're never gonna find him 'round my door
Oh, I've got rhythm, I've got music
I got my girl, who could ask for anything more?
I've got rhythm, I've got rhythm ...
Gershwin
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#115784 - 11/22/03 09:30 AM
Re: It's hoi polloi time again
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addict
Registered: 11/09/03
Posts: 619
Loc: Carpal Tunnel Country
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Shakespeare's an easy one, since he happily broke anything we consider a grammatical rule.Here's t'other side of the coin, Shanks, in a NY Times review of "Doing our own thing" by linguist John McWhorter: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/16/books/review/16CALDWET.htmlExtract: At some point in the 1960's, Americans lost faith in their written language, and settled for reproducing a less demanding (but more ''real'') oral variant on the page and in public. The result, McWhorter asserts, has been a steep and steady decline in the quality of political oratory, poetry, musical theater, preaching and -- ultimately -- thinking.
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#115785 - 11/22/03 10:05 AM
Re: It's hoi polloi time again
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7184
Loc: Vermont
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welcome, grapho!
interesting article, I missed that on Sunday.
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"have got"?
Re: Gotta dance!
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