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#115450 - 11/07/03 07:43 PM Pulling a barrel up a ramp
dnes Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 6
Loc: Texas, USA
I'm looking for the word for an apparatus to pull a barrel or other cylindrical object up a ramp. One ties ropes to the top of the ramp, wraps them around the barrel and pulls on them, thus rolling the barrel up the ramp.

I can clearly remember a diagram of this which I saw in a dictionary a long time ago, but I have forgotten the word. Any ideas?


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#115451 - 11/07/03 09:14 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Hi, dnes. I don't think I've ever heard of something specifically for the purpose you state, so I can't help you with that; all I can think of is ropes and pulleys. But if you have the time, perhaps your apparatus is somewhere in one of the links on this page:
http://www.courses.dsu.edu/eled320/Fall2001units/Fall 2001/Peterson/Bibliography.htm


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#115452 - 11/08/03 09:11 AM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear dnes: If I were doing it, I'd have the barrel on a dolley, and use a winch. So "winch" might be the word you want.


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#115453 - 11/08/03 09:17 AM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Winch! Yes! My husband has called it a "come-along" so much that I forgot the actual name!


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#115454 - 11/08/03 12:19 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
dellfarmer Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/13/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Vermont (US)
If it were the other way around - the rope tied to the barrel and wrapped around something that turned at the top of the ramp - you'd be talking about a capstan, the same type of mechanism used for hauling up anchors and such.

Ron.
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Ron.

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#115455 - 11/08/03 12:48 PM Sliding a floor under a barrel
musick Offline
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Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 2658
Loc: Chicago
...called it a "come-along"...

The modern "come-along" (as I know it) is a bit of a hybrid. Its action is a built-in dual 'winch' as it has pulley's on both ends that are pulled together just as the barrel is pulled up the ramp, but it has large hooks on both ends which seem to *reflect the function of a single, ratcheted line such as Ron's 'capstan'.

Welcome aboard, dellfarmer!

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#115456 - 11/08/03 01:18 PM Re: under a barrel on the floor
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
up heah, we don't likely go out during mud season without the come-along...

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formerly known as etaoin...

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#115457 - 11/08/03 10:17 PM Re: under a barrel on the floor
dnes Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 6
Loc: Texas, USA
If I recall correctly, the definition claimed it was an "apparatus". However, the illustration suggested that it was more of a method for pulling a barrel up a ramp using some rope. I've attempted to recreate the illustration as an animated gif...sorry for the shaky camera :) The gif is at http://nd.com.ru/pullramp.gif


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#115458 - 11/08/03 10:29 PM Re: under a barrel on the floor
consuelo Offline
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Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 2636
Loc: Caribbean
Here ya go, dnes. See what I mean?
http://nd.com.ru/pullramp.gif

[*wink]

[*blue]Piece of cake![*/blue]




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#115459 - 11/08/03 10:38 PM Re: under a barrel on the floor
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear dnes: Your gif looks like a special case of a winch.
My impression of it is, though, that it would have a rather small mechanical advantage. And the pull on the rope would not be kept centered, so that the barrel would tip sidewise and could not be controlled.

If I remember after more than sixty years since I had a first year physics course, mechanical advantage is ratio of force time distance traveled operator's hand, divided by force (weight) times distance traveled by object. In the case of the barrel, the ratio is one. The barrel will move up the slope pi times D, when rope is moved pi times D, so there is no mechanical advantage. The slope is one of the basic machines, so force require to move barrel up the slope is less than force required to lift barrel vertically.
But in practice, it could not be assumed that the barrel would not simply slip and rotate in place.Just a dolley would be better than just the rope.


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#115460 - 11/09/03 01:08 AM Re: under a barrel on the floor
dnes Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 6
Loc: Texas, USA
Thanks to all for the replies.

Wwh, to avoid this problem of the object tipping sidewise, I assume there would be two ropes, wrapped near opposite ends of the barrel. The worker would then pull both ropes at the same time, or two workers could each take a rope and hoist the barrel together.


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#115461 - 11/09/03 12:12 PM Re: under a barrel on the floor
wow Offline
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Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
Oh, sure and then both ropes could slide of either end - oooppps - and why do you want the darn barrell up the ramp anyway?
Just tap the keg and have the party at ground level.


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#115462 - 11/09/03 02:27 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
davego Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 15
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Can't think of any particular name, but this is the way beer barrels were lowered into the beer cellar at the local pub when I was a young un. This was done by the draymen, who I imagine were quite skilled. If my memory of physics serves me correctly, I believe it would be a two to one ratio. Two ropes/two men -- four to one. Not too difficult.



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#115463 - 11/09/03 03:45 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear davego: you gave me an idea. The way to lower a beer barrel down a ramp into cellar would be to have rope long enough to make several winds around barrel in middle of rope, then tie ends together. Then the top rope could be cautiously paid out hand over hand. And considering the value of a barrel of beer, a pair of men and a pair of such ropes would be a good idea.The rope would have to be long enough to have a distance equal to the length of the ramp between you and the barrel, and you would have to walk forward as barrel went down ramp.


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#115464 - 11/12/03 08:11 AM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
wow Offline
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Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
Sounds like Dr.Bill has the problem solved ... now when is this going to happen and do we get an invite to the party and directions to the site? Should I bring pretzels?


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#115465 - 12/10/03 11:09 AM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
dnes Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 6
Loc: Texas, USA
I found it! I was looking up the etymology of "parenthesis" and there it was, a picture of two men pulling a barrel up a ramp. The word is...

parbuckle


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#115466 - 12/10/03 11:59 AM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear dnes: My hat off,and an effort at deep bow (frustrated by my ankylosind spodylitis_) using your clues, I found:
Parbuckle
(Par"buc`kle) n. (a) A kind of purchase for hoisting or lowering a cylindrical burden, as a cask. The middle of a long rope is made fast aloft, and both parts are looped around the object, which rests in the loops, and rolls in them as the ends are hauled up or payed out. (b) A double sling made of a single rope, for slinging a cask, gun, etc.

I never heard of it before.



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#115467 - 12/10/03 12:27 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
Alex Williams Offline
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Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1814
Loc: Spam Factory

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#115468 - 12/10/03 12:53 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
A nice picture, Alex, but it shows clearly that it is to hoist a barrel vertically, not to roll it up a ramp. Nice word to know just the same.



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#115469 - 12/10/03 02:38 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
Alex Williams Offline
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Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1814
Loc: Spam Factory
Oh I dunno, it looks like a very steep ramp to me, but that is nothing worth arguing about really. I just did a google image search for "parbuckle," and that was the only picture it found.


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#115470 - 12/10/03 03:19 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear Alex: my bum vision kept me from appreciating some of the features of that lash-up. And the artist failed to have some proportions optimum. If started with ropes hitched by those snap-hooks in optimum position, the barrel could be rolled pi times diameter, which could equat the height of the plank that is the ramp. If slippage were not a problem, the barrel could climb far enough to tilt the plank to lie horizontally. The axis of the barrel would rise only about equal to diameter, so the mechanical advantage would be about pi, or three times, better than I thought at first.
So for such a short lift, the apparatus would work. But the ramp length could not be greater than pi times d.
Thanks for the fun of thinking about it.


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#115471 - 12/10/03 03:58 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
so how does parbuckle relate to turnbuckle? I mean, etymologically-like?

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formerly known as etaoin...

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#115472 - 12/10/03 05:04 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear etaoin: I had to look it up. The first example I found was an arrangement to adjust throw of a railroad switch by means of a rod threaded at both ends, coupled at one end to the movable portion of the track, and the other to the switch, making it possible to adjust the length of the rod connecting the two devices.


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#115473 - 12/10/03 05:15 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
right, Bill. I have turnbuckles on my screen door, attached to long rods on the diagonal to adjust the squareness of the door. I'm wondering how the two words, parbuckle and turnbuckle, relate, word-wise.

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formerly known as etaoin...

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#115474 - 12/10/03 05:46 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear etaoin: I suddenly remembered the turnbuckles on my screen doors, and almost choked on the pie I was eating.
Detail about them, an elongated "O" has threaded holes aligned with axix,at each end, but the rod ends have to have one end thread right handed,and other end left hand threaded to get change in length. I also used miniature ones in my radio controlled airplanes, to adjust some of the controls.

The essential part of the parbuckle is the snaphook used to
hitch the chain around the barrel Here are some pictures of various kinds:(not as strong as the ones in the picture)
http://anyardfactory.com/lanyard-hardware-option.htm

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#115475 - 12/10/03 08:57 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Thanks for telling us, dnes; I hate knowing there's something out there that I just can't find!


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#115476 - 12/10/03 09:58 PM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
I did some more searching for parbuckle, and found many sites that mentioned it, so that it is clear it is a fairly common term in mechanical engineering. I even found it used in a site about Paul Bunyan!
"The Winter of the Deep Snow everything was buried. Paul had to dig down to find the tops of the tallest White Pines. He had the snow dug away around them and lowered his sawyers down to the base of the trees. When the tree was cut off he hauled it to the surface with a long parbuckle chain to which Babe, mounted on snowshoes, was hitched."


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#115477 - 12/12/03 07:15 AM Re: Pulling a barrel up a ramp
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
AHD says Alteration (influenced by BUCKLE) of parbunkel.] . I couldn't find any etymology listed for turnbuckle, but given the def. I have to say I think it's pretty obvious.

I decided to try looking up par, when it's used as a prefix, since buckle has a clear meaning here. Two dictionaries directed me to LU para-. This is from infoplease:
para-
1. a prefix appearing in loanwords from Greek, most often attached to verbs and verbal derivatives, with the meanings “at or to one side of, beside, side by side” (parabola; paragraph; parallel; paralysis), “beyond, past, by” (paradox; paragogue); by extension from these senses, this prefix came to designate objects or activities auxiliary to or derivative of that denoted by the base word (parody; paronomasia), and hence abnormal or defective (paranoia), a sense now common in modern scientific coinages (parageusia; paralexia). As an English prefix, para- 1 may have any of these senses; it is also productive in the naming of occupational roles considered ancillary or subsidiary to roles requiring more training, or of a higher status, on such models as paramedical and paraprofessional: paralegal; paralibrarian; parapolice.
2. Chem.a combining form designating the para (1, 4) position in the benzene ring. Abbr.: p-. Cf. meta- (def. 2c), ortho- (def. 2b). See diag. under ortho-. Also, esp. before a vowel,par-.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0577416.html


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#115478 - 12/12/03 03:12 PM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
parbunkel

bunkel?

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formerly known as etaoin...

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#115479 - 12/12/03 03:25 PM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Um... or Fatty?

who said "bunkel"??


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#115480 - 12/12/03 03:27 PM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
bunkel?

Car's brother.


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#115481 - 12/12/03 03:40 PM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
who said "bunkel"??

via Jackie:
AHD says Alteration (influenced by BUCKLE) of parbunkel.]

Fatty. good one.

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formerly known as etaoin...

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#115482 - 12/12/03 04:05 PM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
I searched for "carbunkel" and found it in a book written by Captain John Smith. The word is near the end of the long paragraph:
Horse. To Sling. Slings.

To sling is to make fast any caske, yard, ordnances, or the like in a
paire of Slings, and Slings are made of a rope spliced at either end into
it selfe with one eye at either end, so long as to bee sufficient to
receive the caske, the middle part of the rope also they seaze together,
and so maketh another eye to hitch the hooke of the tackle, another sort
are made much longer for the hoising of ordnances, another is a chaine of
iron to Sling or binde the yards fast aloft to the crosse trees in a
fight, lest the ties should bee cut, and so the mast must fall. The
Canhookes are two hookes fastened to the end of a rope with a noose, like
this the Brewers use to sling or carry their barrels on, and those serve
also to take in or out hogsheads, or any other commodities. A Parbunkel is
two ropes that have at each end a noose or lumpe that being crossed, you
may set any vessell that hath but one head upon them, bringing but the
loopes over the upper end of the caske, fix but the tackle to them, and
then the vessell will stand strait in the middest to heave out, or take in
without spilling.




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#115483 - 12/12/03 04:13 PM Re: Captain, my Captian
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
thanks, Dr. Bill. now we're getting somewhere.

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formerly known as etaoin...

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#115484 - 12/12/03 09:02 PM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Dr. Bill, I concede to you what you labeled my "superior" search skills--I couldn't find parbunkel anywhere. (Yes, eta, I was confused, too; I never heard of parbunkel--or parbuckle, for that matter.)


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#115485 - 12/12/03 09:29 PM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear Jackie: I claim no search skill. I use only the Yahoo Search box. I think it is wonderful.


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#115486 - 12/12/03 11:22 PM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
dnes Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 6
Loc: Texas, USA
Hmm, a parbunkel... interesting.

I was so happy to find parbuckle again. Whenever I tried to remember what it was, the two words that always popped into my head were turnbuckle (which I knew was something different), and arbuckle (like Jon Arbuckle of the Garfield comic strip). I was so close! :)


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#115487 - 12/13/03 09:03 AM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
I learned "Arbuckle" from scandal in early days of silent silent movies when Fatty Arbuckle was convicted of murder of his girlfriend. Forgot it until I had very competent dentist by that name.


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#115488 - 12/13/03 11:10 AM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
Are you sure about that "conviction?" I tried to look it up but kept getting an error page ... thought he was found not guilty but the scandal ruined his career and life.


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#115489 - 12/13/03 11:17 AM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear wow: I should not have used the word "convicted" since all I remember is that he was widely thought to be guilty.


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#115490 - 12/13/03 06:57 PM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
of troy Offline
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Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
ah, convicted in the court of public opinion, --reguardless of what the jury decided.

along with 'Lizzy Borden' (who was also aquited), but remains:

Lizzy Borden took an ax
And gave her father 40 whacks.
When she saw what she had done,
Gave her mother 41!


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my other obsession

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#115491 - 12/14/03 11:04 AM Re: where's Simon? or Archie?
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
convicted in the court of public opinion So true so often, Helen.

Dr. Bill and wow, you can read about Mr. A. here:
http://lookup.atomica.com/gurunet/query?cid=1325144153


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