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#113568 - 10/13/03 08:56 PM Music appreciation from speech
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
While trying to determine the veracity of that monkey-brain-video-game allegation, I found this article.
http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/news/newsrelease.asp?id=2653&catid=2,46&cpg=newsrelease.asp

Part of it says ...Catherine Howe and Dale Purves have presented evidence that variation in the relative harmoniousness, or "consonance," of different tone combinations arises from people's exposure to the acoustical characteristics of speech sounds. ...

the points at which sound energy is concentrated in the speech spectrum predict the chromatic scale -- the scale represented by the keys on a piano keyboard.


I also like this:
Those studies of vision led to the idea that evolution -- as well as individual experience during development -- created a visual system in which perceptions are determined by what a given visual stimulus has typically signified in the past, rather than simply representing to an observer what is presently ‘out there.’



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#113569 - 10/13/03 09:13 PM Re: Music appreciation from speech
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
really interesting, Jackie! thanks! going to take some time to digest it.

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#113570 - 10/14/03 06:20 AM Re: Music appreciation from speech
Faldage Offline
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Posts: 13803
the points at which sound energy is concentrated in the speech spectrum predict the chromatic scale -- the scale represented by the keys on a piano keyboard.

Not having read the article yet I may be totally out of line, but I might think that postdict would be a better choice of words than predict.

The notes of the chromatic scale grow out of the harmonic sequence dictated by nature.


I've now read the article and I stand by what I've said. The speech patterns that they are claiming provide the patterns for the appreciation of musical intervals are being produced by people who find the musical intervals pleasing. This is pre hoc ergo propter hoc, pure and simple.

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#113571 - 10/14/03 09:36 AM Re: Music appreciation from speech
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Yeah, I wondered about that 'predict', myself. Though I have to think that speech is, well, dictated by nature also.
(Gee-talk about your harmonic convergences!) The only thing I can think of that might explain their use of the word is that most people learn to talk before they are exposed to the chromatic scale...[very unsure of self e]



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#113572 - 10/14/03 09:45 AM Re: Music appreciation from speech
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
most people learn to talk before they are exposed to the chromatic scale

Pehaps, but did they study speech patterns of young children?

And, if you stop to think about it, you'll remember that we have music all around us. They would have to study the speech paterns of children who have been exposed only to dissonant music.


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#113573 - 10/14/03 03:11 PM Re: Music appreciation from speech
Zed Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
"dissonant music"
or who come from a culture with a different musical scale. Or am I talking about the same thing?


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#113574 - 10/14/03 03:16 PM Re: Music appreciation from speech
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
The chromatic scale is not the one we ordinarily use in tonal music compositions. It's the diatonic scale.

Chr   Dia
C C
C#
D D
D#
E E
F F
F#
G G
G#
A A
A#
B B
C C

e.g.


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#113575 - 10/14/03 07:09 PM Re: Music appreciation from speech
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
I, too, think that predict was a poor choice, though I think I know what was meant. however, Zed's point is a very good direction to explore. do voice patterns of people from cultures that use other than the diatonic scale exhibit the same propensity towards the chromatic scale, or do they parallel their own harmonic structure?

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#113576 - 10/17/03 10:55 PM Re: Music appreciation from speech
consuelo Offline
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Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 2636
Loc: Caribbean
Also to be considered:
Practically from the moment of conception we are exposed to rhythm (heartbeat) and sound. Amniotic fluid would mute and distort the sounds somewhat, but.


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#113577 - 10/18/03 09:20 AM Re: Music appreciation from speech
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Mm--so, maybe we're pre-disposed for music?


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