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#111179 - 08/29/03 07:19 AM yegg
WhitmanO'Neill Offline
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Loc: Rio Grande, Cape May County, N...
of unknown origin

Tsuwm?...you have anything on this one?


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#111180 - 08/29/03 07:48 AM Re: yegg
sjmaxq Offline
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Get in line, Juan -first, he's got to find out whence huckery (as used here) comes.

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#111181 - 08/29/03 08:46 AM Re: yegg
tsuwm Offline
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here's what M-W had to say about yegg when it was their daily word* : http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/mwwodarch.pl?Jul.17. OED2 offers "Said to be the surname of a certain American burglar and safe-breaker."

huckery? as used where?**

* do you think that possibly there are just too many daily words?

**huckery is probably just from hucker, a back-formation from huckster.


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#111182 - 08/29/03 09:22 AM Re: yegg
wwh Offline
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From wordorigins.com

Benjamin Choate
Unregistered User
(5/30/02 3:50 am)
Yegg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There were once the forms "John Yegg" and "yeggman". The words were associated with tramps (perhaps among other associations) ca. 1900. Claims about the origin include:

(1) from the name of a famous safecracker/criminal, John Yegg;
(2) from the German "Jaeger" = "hunter".

I do not know that either of these has any substantiating evidence.

The Pinkerton Web site gives another derivation (supposedly pre-1900):

**The word 'Yegg' or 'Yeggman' originated with the gypsies. When a particularly clever thief is found among a gypsy tribe, he is selected as the 'Yegg' or chief thief.**

I don't know that this is reliable at all. But note that many Romany dialects have something like "yek" meaning "[number] one" ... as do other Indic languages.


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#111183 - 08/29/03 04:24 PM Re: yegg
sjmaxq Offline
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>huckery? as used where? huckery is probably just from hucker, a back-formation from huckster

Citation, s'il du please? As I mentioned in my email, huckery as used in NZ appears to be pretty much uniquely Zild, and there is no online mention of its origins anywhere, anbd that includes here the last time I asked. Also "huckster" is not used here, at laeast not now, nor since I was a child, but huckery is still in common use. Finally, the transformation from "con-man" to "old, decerpit, broken-down" seems a bit (although only a bit) of a stretch. Stretch or not, I will be happy to accept that it is so when I see proof from someone less fecal, if that's OK with you.


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#111184 - 08/30/03 08:19 AM Re: huckery
Faldage Offline
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1377 She hath holden hokkerye al hire lyf time

The business of a huckster.

From B&M OED


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#111185 - 08/30/03 04:39 PM Re: huckery
sjmaxq Offline
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>1377 She hath holden hokkerye al hire lyf time

The business of a huckster.

Ok, Geoff, care to translate for me? Is the word there being used in the sense that is used up here, as an adjective, or is it being used as a noun? I am genuinely interested in figuring this one out, and definitely the help of those further up the evolutionary ladder to do so. Please.

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#111186 - 08/30/03 05:37 PM Re: huckery
Faldage Offline
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The business of a huckster

Sounds like a noun to me.

used up here

I'll echo ron, as used where?

If huckery is a modern backformation from huckster it has merely revived the 1377 usage. AHD4 claims that the origin of huckster is Middle English with Low German origin and references the Middle Dutch hokester. My German dictionary has Höker, but no corresponding Hökerei.


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#111187 - 08/30/03 05:41 PM Re: huckery
tsuwm Offline
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well, I'm not Geoff, but few amongst us are; here is the compleat OED entry, fwiw:

Obs.

[f. HUCKER n. or HUCK v.: see -ERY. Cf. also HUCKSTERY.]

The business of a huckster.

1377 LANGL. P. Pl. B. v. 227 She hath holden hokkerye [v. rr. hukkerye, hukrie; C. hockerye, also huckerstrye; A. hoxterye] al hire lyf tyme.


so, she has held the business of a huckster all her lifetime. the citation is evidently from "LANGLAND, William
The vision of William concerning Piers Plowman."

an additional aside: Mencken gives huckster as an American equivalent to the English coster, costermonger or hawker. maybe the latter bears some relationship to the obviously rare hucker ([f. HUCK v. + -ER, or back-formation from HUCKSTER, q.v. (Perh. only a glossarist's word.)] A petty dealer; one who bargains or haggles.

edit: I continued to be puzzlepated by "as used up here" until I realized that was just max being parochial again. I kept looking for previous usage examples from NZ here, which all seem to have been deleted.

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#111188 - 08/30/03 05:54 PM Re: huckery
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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My German dictionary has Höker, but no corresponding Hökerei.

sounds pretty hokey to me...



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#111189 - 08/30/03 05:59 PM Re: huckery
sjmaxq Offline
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Sorry, Faldage. Here in Zild, huckery means old, decrepit, run-down, threadbare, etc. Googling the owrd strongly suggests the usage is confined to Zild, and the word huckster is not used here. So, my question remains, where did we get our meaning of the word, and why does even the OED not have a reference for this usage?

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#111190 - 08/30/03 06:35 PM Re: huckery
maverick Offline
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Registered: 09/15/00
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confined to Zild

Musta come from all y'alls rendering of Huckery Duckery Dock :)


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#111191 - 08/30/03 06:41 PM Re: huckery
tsuwm Offline
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huckery == scungy

ah, that explains it. :)

p.s. - I also saw reference to a book titled "The Huckery Mole". perhaps that explains it (or not, it's prolly a proper name).

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#111192 - 08/30/03 06:51 PM Re: huckery
sjmaxq Offline
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Registered: 07/20/03
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huckery == scungy

ah, that explains it. :)
name).


Explains it how, dammit?! Next thing I know you'll be telling me elephants got hooves!

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#111193 - 08/30/03 07:35 PM Re: huckery
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Is that Geoff as in Chaucer?


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#111194 - 08/30/03 11:19 PM Re: huckery
sjmaxq Offline
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Registered: 07/20/03
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Loc: Te Ika a Maui
>Is that Geoff as in Chaucer?

Howdy, Pilgrim, and thanks for getting it.

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#111195 - 08/31/03 11:12 AM Re: huckery
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
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Loc: lower upstate New York
No small part of your charm is your subtlety, Max.


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#111196 - 08/31/03 01:13 PM Re: huckery
tsuwm Offline
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from the Juxtaposition (out of context) for Fun & Profit Dept.

max> Explains it how, dammit?!
ASp> No small part of your charm is your subtlety, Max.


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#111197 - 08/31/03 04:06 PM Re: huckery
sjmaxq Offline
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>from the Juxtaposition (out of context) for Fun & Profit Dept.

I can never hear juxtapose without thinking of Emo Phillips:
---------------------------------
I had an argument with my father. I argued that Plato was the father of philosophy. My dad takes the opposite position, that I should wax the kitchen floor.

I said: "Well, the kitchen floor doesn't exist, at least not in the permanent sense the concept "floor" does."

He said: "Do you think the concept "your skull" exists?"

I said: "Yes" And then he surprised me by juxtaposing the two concepts.


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#111198 - 08/31/03 04:20 PM Re: conceptual juxtaposition
tsuwm Offline
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Registered: 04/03/00
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now *that* was subtle.


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#111199 - 08/31/03 05:45 PM Re: huckery
vbq Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 95
I argued that Plato was the father of philosophy. My dad takes the opposite position, that I should wax the kitchen floor. ... And then he surprised me by juxtaposing the two concepts

That's what you get for waxing philosophic when there's work to be done.



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#111200 - 08/31/03 09:21 PM Re: huckery
WhitmanO'Neill Offline
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Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 4189
Loc: Rio Grande, Cape May County, N...
From the Just Supposin' for Juxtaposin' Dept:

In communism, man exploits man.
In capitalism it's just the opposite.


--old Soviet prole saying


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#211212 - 05/28/13 09:44 PM Re: yegg [Re: WhitmanO'Neill]
GoodWolf Offline
stranger

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 2
This is from the autobiography of Jack Black titled, You Can't Win.
"It is a corruption of "yekk," a word from one of the many dialects spoken in Chinatown, and it means beggar. When a hypo or beggar approached a Chinaman to ask for something to eat, he was greeted with the exclamation, "yekk man, yekk man"" ."

You Can't Win is a great story!

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#211215 - 05/29/13 01:42 AM Re: huckery [Re: sjmaxq]
teepee Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 25
Loc: New Zealand
Maybe- with the lazy NZ pronunciation it stemmed from Mark Twain's Huckleberry- ya know huck...ery- slurring the words when we are not quite sure or even when we are. Derived from Twain's novel- and of course I have no basis whatsoever for this theory.

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#211218 - 05/29/13 06:29 AM Re: huckery [Re: WhitmanO'Neill]
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
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Yah. Jack Black, noted historical linguist. Try this


Edited by Faldage (05/29/13 06:32 AM)

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#211274 - 06/02/13 04:56 PM Re: huckery [Re: Faldage]
GoodWolf Offline
stranger

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 2
Right. I read the online etymology link you posted. Jack Black was a yegg and writer from 1900 who, in his autobiography writes how he thinks the term originated. The link you posted states unknown origin, and 1903 which is the time period of Jack Black's personal writings. I thought it would be helpful to have a documented account from a yegg's autobiography on the origins of the word.

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