You too brother.

stales

I thought I'd replied to this one last night. I had a coupla beers with some Australians after work last night (I'm in a minority of one where I work).

S. and I have been thinking of going to Gallipoli for Anzac Day next year. The Ockers are as well, so maybe we'll get to finish what my grandfather and his mates started!

Two years ago while in Turkey I spoke to a guy whose grandfather fought against the Anzacs. He told me that his grandfather was particularly surprised at how ineffectively the Anzacs were employed, as if an expendable extra by the allies - as I guess MaxQ alludes to in the first post. For that reason, and no doubt the courage they displayed under fire, he told me that his grandfather had nothing but the greatest respect for Anzacs. Lest we forget.

S. and I have been thinking of going to Gallipoli for Anzac Day next year.

Speaking of which...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,4218021^7583,00.html

Re:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,4218021^7583,00.html
Oh, mercy, doc. You reckon it's an age thing? I've had glimmerings into Australian culture that, rightly or wrongly, seem to tell me that in general, Aussies seem to have a credo of not taking life too seriously. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Do you think the rowdiness could be an extreme of that? Or maybe it's that 1915 is the equivalent of ancient history, to the young?
It was very gratifying to read how much the Turkish government honors the site. Thanks for posting.

...in general, Aussies seem to have a credo of not taking life too seriously.

Pretty accurate. We don't take life or ourselves to seriously, but there are some things which are important to the national psyche, and the ANZAC tradition is one of them. I have no problem with a few (or more) toasts to remember, but to turn the day into a party just seems wrong to me.

...Zild is barely mentioned in ANZAC day musings on the other side of the Tasman...

Too true. There was an interesting radio discussion debating the merits of making ANZAC Day our official National Day (the current Oz Day is seen by most as either "invasion day", or "founding of Sydney day"). It came to a rather sudden end when a Zildian caller rang and reminded all involved that it was also important in NZ.

> the general Australian perception is that the only thing NZ supplied were a couple of initials to make the acronym flow better.

If it's any consolation to you, hardly any Europeans I've met believes, nevermind knows that the Aussies and Kiwis fought in both world wars. 'Why would they want to do that?' is often the question I get if I can convince them.
When I went to France for the 75th military anniversary back in the nineties though, I'm happy to say that I met many friendly old local French farmers who knew all about the Australian and New Zealand involvement and had benefited directly from it.

the general Australian perception is that the only thing NZ supplied were a couple of initials to make the acronym flow better.
As in 'ANZAC? With no Kiwis? Aac!'
(Note to all citizens of my adopted country - this is meant purely as a joke! )

On the more serious question of Oz / Zild participation in the world wars, can anyone tell me whether either country had conscription in either war?

Both did. Not sure about both wars, but certainly in the second stoush.

Well there you are, then! Ask and ye shall receive!

Thanks Kiwis for that info.

I think I must be feeling unusually sensitive because I have been tweaked by Max's original "the Pommy bastards who slaughtered so many of our finest" remark for a day or two now. (Possibly because it came on the back of a little too much ANZAC ribbing for a Pom living in Sydney??? I'll get over it...)

I don't in any way want to belittle the ANZAC troops, or any other troops - or to say that the British strategists should be excused some dumb errors - but I think it's fair to point out that contrary to the impression the film may give, British troops died at Gallipoli too. A far lower percentage of our total population, to be sure, but then again Brits were engaged on other fronts at the same time. And I never knew the Newfoundlanders were there too!

Statistics vary, but these are representative of what I could find:
http://www.turkishpeople.com/tours/henk/anzac/22.html

Actually, the British landed virtually unopposed, then sat around. By the time they got going, the Turks had regrouped and the opportunity was lost. Can't remember the exact details, and all my references are in cartons in the garage ...

Aussie and Kiwi involvement in WWII

And wasn't Australia actually attacked once on its own territory by the Japanese early in WWII...an island on its northwest coast, perhaps?

The Only WO'N!

...an island on its northwest coast, perhaps?

And Darwin on the mainland.

And, Bell Island, Newfoundland (20 min. drive from here + 20 min. ferry ride) was the only place in North America to be attacked f WWII. Four German U-boats were in Conception Bay and were somehow sunk by the Allies. (Don't remember the details.) You can still visit the gun batteries on Bell Island.

Sorry, Bean. The battle of Attu in Alaska was a full-on artillery attack with many casualties. Also, balloons containing bombs were released from Japan by the thousands, a few of which actually were carried by the intended winds into the Pacific Northwest. (A passive attack, but it probably qualifies under the broad definition of "attack")

Oh yeah, and isn't Hawaii considered part of North America?

Oh yeah, and isn't Hawaii considered part of North America?
No. Also, remember that it wasn't a state of the United States during the Japanese attack, nor was Alaska.

Furthermore, a Japanese submarine surfaced off the shore of Oregon and lobbed a few rounds from its deck gun onto the coast. So, Fiberbabe, your very own home state has the dubious honor of being the only west coast part of what was then the USA that was attacked in WWII. Aren't you thrilled!

an other german sub was sunk in a US east coast harbor too, or maybe just near (25 or so miles off shore) not one of the really big ones (ie, not NY or Boston..) it might have been near the naval shipyard in Mystic CT, where they still make submarines..or was it one of the carolina's.. (i don't really remember...)

it, like the attack on alaska and oregon where keep under a news black out during the war.

OK, well I knew I didn't remember the factoid in all its detail, so I guess there's a qualifier I forgot: "directly attacked by the Germans". Most of the other things you guys cited were Japanese attacks, or offshore somewhere.

This page shows the memorial which gives the details: Lance Cove, on Bell Island, was the only community to have taken a direct attack from a torpedo fired by a Nazi U-boat. http://ngb.chebucto.org/Dist_Photo/hm-bell-island.html

WWII attacks on Australian territory

...an island on its northwest coast, perhaps?

And Darwin on the mainland.

Historic details, please?



The Only WO'N!

Certainly.

http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/darwin02.htm