Abu Ghraib?

I've heard it said four ways.

(this is not a political post)

Yet, it's possible that none of them was *correct.

True. The Arabic consonants would be difficult in English, sure, but four different vowels? (and probably a fifth, the *correct sound?)

Anna, have you seen this:
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/ ?

I would read it "ah-boo-gree-ahb", based on a coworker's pronunciation of her name. (with a flipped "r")

etaoin (or anyone) - Any specific reason thier spelling of those pronunciations all include two b's?

two b's

or not two b's...

huh. I hadn't noticed that, but perhaps the first b stops the sound(jheem and fald will have the proper term...) and the second b is re-stated? not sure if I said that at all well, but...

/abu grEb/ with a as in father, b as in byte, u as in tutor, g as in geld, r as in preen, E as in get, and b as in byte once more. But then I don't speak Arabic.

The gh in Arabic is a voiced velar fricative. English doesn't have this sound, but it's similar to the ch in the German pronunciation of Bach, but with your glottis vibrating. If you wish to hear an Arab say the name, listen here:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2100290/

Whoa, Anna--ask and you shall receive! The guy sounds to me like he's saying Abu (as jheem gave it) "guhrrrr-et-ta"--or something like that. The ending sound almost sounded like an f, at first, but after half a dozen listenings I thought it sounded like a t with an uh attached. Almost a huh: ett-huh.

Not sure if you were listening to the guy on my link or somebody else, but it sounds like the speaker is releasing his final /b/ at the end of the word. In English, we tend not to release our word final stops (b, p, d, t, g, k). Say cat, and notice that there is no puff of air after the /t/. When we close the air tract in pronouncing the /t/, we don't released the closure as we would when pronouncing top. Now, say top, and you'll notice a little puff of air. Cantonese has some word-final unreleased stops like English, but other languages don't. In other words, in English the sound written as {t} in stop, top, and pot are all quantifiable different in pronunciation (i.e., unaspirated, aspirated, and unreleased respectively. A stage Italian accent with lots of final schwas is how speakers of English have analyzed released stops at the end of words when many Italians speak English. (As for the tiny hesitation, or schwa, between the /gh/ and the /r/, some transliterations of Abu Ghraib that I've seen have an /e/ between the two letters.) To my ear, it doesn't sound like he's putting a schwa at the end, just a little puff of air. Hope this helps.

ett-huh

you rang?

Say cat, and notice that there is no puff of air after the /t...

There is when I say "cat" at the end of a sentence or by itself... but this could be my choral skills rearing.

Yes, singers, actors, and public speakers alter the way they speak.

we tend not to release our word final stops

This is the difference I want to make between a plosive and a stop.

some transliterations of Abu Ghraib that I've seen have an /e/ between the two letters

A year old National Geographic I was reading in a doctor's waiting room yesterday had the transliteration Abu Ghurayb.

Standard Arabic words can't begin with two consonants, so Ghuraib/Ghurayb is the way it's written, and it seems the Iraqi dialect doesn't pronounce the u.

Thanks for the link, jheem! I shoulda known I wasn't the only one asking....

Standard Arabic words can't begin with two consonants...

Right. It's a transliteration.

Well, you're free to make this distinction, but most phonologists will see plosive as a slightly older term for stop.

Standard Arabic words can't begin with two consonants

Only if they're marking vowels, which they usually don't. ;) I really need to learn Arabic some day.

and it seems the Iraqi dialect doesn't pronounce the u.

I wonder if they devoice the vowel as the Japanese do in some environments: cf. desu ka being pronounced /dEska/. In Classical Arabic, is ghurayb 'raven' pronounced with the u as /u/ or /@/ (as in tutor or but)?

Well, they don't usually write their vowels, so lots of words begin with two vowels, but I think what Jenet is saying is that phonologically, Arabic doesn't allow word-initial consonant clusters. Also, remember the gh is represented by a single glyph in Arabic, so there's not three letters there. In the IPA, gh would be represented by a gamma /ɣ/.

na-shun-al hue-mill-ee-a-shun