I cleaned off my desk today here at home. It's been even longer than I realized: I found coupons that had expired in...1998. I could all but hear the gasps of relief, as parts of the desktop that haven't seen light for ages, finally got some air. Oh--if you're wondering how I left that big of a mess out in the open for so long, I didn't--it's a modern rolltop. There've been times when I was just hoping and praying that guests wouldn't notice little corners of paper sticking out from under!

from my blog today(roundabout via Jazzo):

from a book by Abigail Sellen and Richad Harper, The Myth of the Paperless Office:

"the messy desk is not necessarily a sign of disorganization. It may be a sign of complexity: those who deal with many unsolved ideas simultaneously cannot sort and file the papers on their desk, because they haven't yet sorted and filed the ideas in their head."

Hey, thanks, eta! I had thought everybody could use a good laugh, but you gave me one!

Welcome to my world, Jackie. I completely understand. Once upon a time I was an immaculate housekeeper. Now, well, I'm not. The last 8 years of my life have been a bit...complicated and my house reflects that.

I've heard there is a show on TLC called Clean Sweep. I don't have cable, so have never seen it. They have a website that offers inspirational ideas for decluttering. After discovering it, I've managed to take several car loads of unused stuff to Goodwill. It feels great to give away things that other people can use. I've decided I'm putting my house on a diet. It has to lose weight every week.

Here's the site:

http://tlc.discovery.com/fansites/cleansweep/tips/tips.html

I've seen that show a couple of times GH. (I prefer to give a show a couple of tries before making a decision) I can't watch it anymore. It drives me crazy. I can't imagine how some people live in such messes. In one, the people 'found' a fireplace in their basement. That's how messy the place was. They had little paths in piles of rubbish in their bedroom leading to their bed, bureau and closet. They even had stuff piled on their bed and they slept around the piles of crap.

Not only is it amazing to me that they live like this, but that they'd expose themselves to millions of viewers is mindboggling.

Most people have that "put stuff here in the interim" place - a place where they'll put stuff that needs to be filed, of need to be brought somewhere and you just don't feel like doing it now. And sometimes, you will find expired coupons (hi Jackie) or long lost lottery tickets. I have a closet like that. But these peoples' entire houses are messed-up rubbish bins.

When I was in the 5th. grade (approx. age 10), there was one girl in the class who was the outcast of the entire room. I followed the lead of a friend and her friend, and teased this girl. The teacher (God bless you, Mrs. Cox!) called the 3 of us in for a private talk and asked if we wouldn't try to befriend this girl. I invited her to my house, and she returned the invitation. Well...the house was literally stacked with newspapers, magazines, and I don't know what all, with paths in between the stacks. I had never seen anything like that before; as soon as I decently could, I called my parents to come pick me up. It just creeped me out.

They even had stuff piled on their bed and they slept around the piles of crap.

Yikes! Well, at least I've never sunk to that level. Hey, perhaps that's why these shows are successful: people want to see messies worse than they are to make themselves feel better.

I wonder if any other civilization in history has had the 'problem' of people owning too much stuff.

the 'problem' of people owning too much stuff

Northwest coast Indians (US/Canada) had a hunter-gatherer society, but, unlike most peoples living in this economy, had the food jump on the table for them, living as they did in the lush temperate rain forests. They accumulated so much property that they would customarily hold parties, called potlatches, in which they would give away or destroy much of their worldly goods. If you were invited to one of these parties it was expected that you would throw one of your own in the near future that was even more lavish in its disposal of property.

civilization in history has had the 'problem' of people owning too much stuff.
Some kings in ancient Egypt must have known it - or what did they build the pyramids for?

...potlatches, in which they would give away or destroy much of their worldly goods...

That's a great solution! Dumping my old stuff at the Goodwill truck just isn't as personal, is it?

The ladies in my book group routinely bring books and magazines they don't want to our meetings. There is a sort of free pile in the center of the table and anyone can take anything on their way out. Actually, once a lady brought a pair of new trousers to give away as well, so maybe this is turning into a kind of suburban potlatch. What's next, I wonder?

there are regular "drop and swaps" in this area, both for clothing and for furniture.

I read about these potlatches in a sociology class Faldage. They were also used to lord one tribe's superiority over another.

When a tribe wanted to quash a neighboring tribe, they'd invite them over and lavish an inordinate amount of gifts on them. If the neighboring tribe could not top the gift-giving feast in a specific amount of time (I don't remember exactly how long it was) then the tribe would lose face and be considered inferior.

The US threw a giant anti-potlatch during the Cold War. It was called the arms race. "My deficit spending is bigger than yours," etc.

When it gets to the point that people are navigating mazes in their houses, there's something much deeper, psychologically speaking, at work.

Anyone know the name of the photo-essay books that someone did - s/he convinced families from countries all over the world to bring *all* of their possessions out of their houses or apartments and took a family portrait among all their stuff. It's a fantastic eye-opener about focus on material goods in particular societies (esp. the US) - you see a family in front of their hut in Africa, and they've got a couple of cots, some light blankets, 3 bowls, and a jar. A follow-up book has also been published ~ people were asked to empty out their kitchen cupboards, and that was *especially* incriminating of USns. Fascinating stuff...

>>>people were asked to empty out their kitchen cupboards, and that was *especially* incriminating of USns.

I don't know about "incriminating" FB. Comparing different people from different cultures as a guilt-inducing ploy doesn't seem right to me. I do believe we should be conscious of the world around us, and help those in need, but not be guilty for what we've got.

If their cupboard is full, it's because they earned the money to fill it. I do agree that there are some places that have so little it is a hardship but, even if I gave everything that I have, that wouldn't change one bit.

There is always going to be people that have more than me and people that have less.

I stand by my choice of words - and I wish I could find a link to post to illustrate why! The disproportionate range of prepared foods as opposed to staple ingredients, especially when seen in the context of what other cultures have in their kitchens, is clearly illustrative of Western priorities. I don't have liberal guilt over my cupboard being full, I have non-partisan guilt over being lazy.

>>>>I don't have liberal guilt over my cupboard being full, I have non-partisan guilt over being lazy.

You do? But why?

If you take a prepared meal and pop it into the oven, you can do other stuff with the time. What makes the other stuff you do less valuable than the time you'd take preparing the meal yourself? How do you gauge those things?

I have to admit I'm not very good at the guilt thing. My Mom & Dad taught us that if you're feeling guilty it's because you did something you knew you shouldn't have done in the first place. So don't do it. I'd rather go the hard route than the easy one and feel guilty.

So FB, pop that meal in the oven and go for a walk, paint, sing a song, relax and do nothing, or anything - it's good to do stuff that makes you happy too.

Those houses piled to the ceiling with junk manifest a serious problem. The hoarding is the result of a mental disorder, and is not easily cured. The piles and piles of magazines and newspapers present a fire hazard, the debris often houses vermin, the piles obstruct access by rescue workers, and the weight of the junk can threaten the structural integrity of the building.

Here's a bit on the subject I found at the website for Mindful Things, which summarizes news in the field of psychology:

Many elderly woman who have never married and who live alone tend to hoard. They accumulate so many possessions that living space becomes unliveable. Those who never married hoarded the most, which the Boston researchers thought might be related to a greater attachment to possessions. The women, who had a form of mental disorder, collected mostly old newspapers, containers and miscellaneous paper, and kept it in the living room, dining room, kitchen, bedroom and sometimes the bathroom. The accumulated possessions created a fire hazard, unsanitary conditions and represented a threat of falls. Involuntary cleaning was not a viable solution, according to the researchers. Since hoarding springs from problems processing information and of emotional attachment, false beliefs about possessions, and avoidance, treatment should focus on modifying those things.

The site also had this summary, which just proves how accurate it must be:

Internet users have a distinct psychological profile. According to new research, they're more trusting of others, more accepting of political and social diversity, and are more open, tolerant, optimistic and literate than those who don't use the Internet. They're more likely to support nontraditional roles for women and homosexuality, although on issues like interracial marriage and teenage sex, no clear differences emerged. To gather the data, researchers interviewed 2,300 people in their homes for approximately 90 minutes.

My college mentor said this about her mother, now in an Alzheimer's care home: "I finally realized that my mom is a bag lady, and her house is her shopping cart."

gift horse: I've decided I'm putting my house on a diet.

I don't put mine on a diet as much as give it enemas when necessary. If I start getting the first signs of pathways, then it's time to get out the soapy water They say a clean house is the sign of a crashed computer. Complete tidiness and sparkling floors have never been real high up on my list of priorities although I must say that when taking care of the house was my principle job, it was in the top three. I found that getting started was the hardest part, so I would always leave one thing undone every day so I would know just exactly where to start the next day. It worked for me, but then my ex would always home in on the one thing I didn't do. He just didn't get me...

They say a clean house is the sign of a crashed computer. That made me laugh out loud, Connie! :-))

As to the "computer users are more..." thing, did the people who wrote up the study happen to mention that, by the very fact that someone knows how to use a computer, it's pretty well a given that they have at least a certain level of education? And that this level tends to be higher than average? And that, overall, the higher the education level, the more likely people are to be all those things mentioned above except maybe trusting?
That may not hold true too much longer, and indeed may already be slipping, as computers in schools have become commonplace and computer users are getting younger.

that someone knows how to use a computer, it's pretty well a given that they have at least a certain level of education? And that this level tends to be higher than average?
Ok. That sounds good. But. How to explain the 10-year-old down the street who is a computer whiz? Not much age, experience or education there!
Then there is a PhD I know who was at total loss how to clean out his old deleted Emails! I had to show him! And Heaven knows I ain't any whizz at the Internet/computer thing.
Just playin' Devil's Advocate here!

How to explain the 10-year-old down the street who is a computer whiz? That's exactly what I was referring to in my last sentence above. Probably my argument only holds true for adults, these days.

FWIW -

Northwest coast Indians (US/Canada) had a hunter-gatherer society...

Soc Sci 4 class in 1959, in the person of Clyde Kluckhohn, taught that the Potlatch was a custom of the Kwakiutl Indians. (That would be pronounced "kwock'-ee-OOT'-ll" . ) The tribe got together once a year and threw their possessions into the Columbia River. Whoever threw in the most was the richest and most important person in the tribe.

Not that anyone cares much, three weeks after the discussion has moved on, but it's such a refreshing name...

I've always like the word Kwakiutl, even though it is now deprecated (see below). The 'tl' digraph represents a voiceless aspirated lateral stop, which sort of sounds like /tl/. A related sound is the 'll' digraph of Catalan or Welsh, which is a voicelesslateral fricative.

We have been called the Kwakiutl ever since 1849, when the white people came to stay in our territories. In fact, the Kwakiutl only occupy the village now called Fort Rupert. The rest of us have our own names and our own villages. For example, the Gwawa'enuxw live at Hopetown. Collectively, we call ourselves the Kwakwaka'wakw--that is, all of the people who speak the language Kwakwala.

http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/naind/html/na_019100_kwakiutl.htm

Also spelled Kwak'wala (with ejective or glottalized labio-velar). There are about 200 speakers left.

Nahuatl, the Latin of Mesoamerica, has many words with "tl".
http://www.linguistlist.org/~ask-ling/archive-2000.1/msg04137.html
Tomato started out as tomatl, was Spanishized to tomate, and was Englishized into tomato.

Yes, this too is a voiceless lateral fricative, like Welsh, Catalan, and Klingon (tlhIngan Hol). It may in fact be a postposed definite article, but I'll need to check on that. (Now where did I put that Nahuatl grammar?)

Now where did I put that Nahuatl grammar? In her adobe hut?

In her adobe hut?