Wordsmith.org
Posted By: belMarduk Expressions - 11/27/00 01:07 AM
Father Steve's thread on the "Saracens at the door" made me think of how often we fall back on expressions we learn over the years. In a few words the expressions are meant to relay a set of information that a paragraphe would be needed to convey.
"I would eat chocolate off a pig's back" ...you feel like eating chocolate (or whatever else) SO much that even if it was on a pig's back you'd eat it.

BUT, if I think of many expressions I was brought up with, I realize that what is perfectly clear to me and mine, may not be clear or pertinent to others.
"I wouldn't trade it for a piece of land." ...even if you offered me a WHOLE farmstead I wouldn't give up the thing the person wants from me. Now, unless you were brought up in farming country, where land is quite valuable, this would really have no impact on you at all.

What expressions do you commonly use?

Posted By: ShyHeart Re: Expressions - 11/27/00 03:24 AM
Up to this point in my life, I have purposely tried to avoid using slang and such expressions as you refer to. At middle age, I find my parents' folksy expressions frequently coming to mind, and now, I value them and occasionally make use of them. I thought their usage would paint me as a country bumpkin; now, I see it more as a matter of undeniable heritage! I've also meticulously avoided adopting trendy, current idiom because I thought it often impeded, rather than aided, communication. Anymore I try to let myself use the expressions that I find pleasing and appropriate, instead of considering them all to be out of bounds. Besides, I appreciate such turns of phrase when others are speaking or writing. They add color. And I don't want to be speaking all in bland, neutral beige! As for expressions I commonly use -- I am scratching my head and will have to get back to you on that!

Posted By: Jackie Re: Expressions - 11/27/00 04:17 AM
belM.,

I've always been one who picks up others' expressions quite easily.
Here are a few I've picked up from my Tennessee relatives:

What's that got to do with the price of green cheese on the moon?

Love (someone) to pieces.

Slow as molasses.

One that has perturbed some people of British or British-offshoot origin is 'scared to death', or even 'scared half-to-death'. Apparently, Europeans think this means literally, whereas my friends here and I just mean it as an indicator that we were more than a little startled.

My father would say a summer day was "hotter than
Billy-be-damned". (I've no idea who poor Billy was!)

I just read that Guinness (Records, all you Anglo-sousers!)
has created a--what-else--world's smallest internet ad. It is shown to fit on a bee's knee, to indicate that it is "the bee's knees".

Posted By: Marty Bee's knees - 11/27/00 04:59 AM
Jackie,

I'm not sure if you (and The Guinness BoR) use the expression differently from the one I know, or if I'm just missing the joke in the advertising campaign. I'm familiar with something being "the bee's knees" if it's the best. I'll concede it seems a really odd compliment, but I don't associate it in any way with size, per se. We'd use the expression "a bee's dick" (ruder form of "a bee's whisker" which is also used) for something tiny, often in the sense of a small margin ("he missed by a bee's dick"). http://www.artistwd.com/joyzine/australia/strine/b.htm
Apologies to the AWAD Filth Police for approaching the gutter again, but that expression is fairly common slang here, and not very high on the obscenity scale.

While we're on the subject of insects' knees, I am reminded of the standard yardstick for shortness, as expressed in the phrase "knee-high to a grasshopper".

Posted By: Bingley Re: Expressions - 11/27/00 05:45 AM
Jackie, I'm not sure your expressions are unique to Kentucky. In my part of the world we said, "What's that got to do with the price of eggs." We also used "Love you to pieces" (but not often being an undemonstrative lot). "You scared me to death" or "half to death" was and still is very common to say you startled me or made me jump.

Bingley
Posted By: shanks Join me in the gutter - 11/27/00 08:52 AM
For some reason, the only British/London expressions I can think of seem to have elements of the salacious or scatological about them.

A piece of piss, for instance, is a phrase referring to a task that is very easy to do. Why it should have taken this form I don't know.

New laddism (as in magazines like Maxim etc) have popularised the dog's bollocks - similar in usage to 'the bees knees'.

Here's another bizarre one - getting on my tits - to mean 'getting on my nerves', or 'irritating me'. Why? Not a clue.

My own 'what does that have to do with the price of...' variant is 'fish'.

I will not bore you with oodles of Bombay slang - since so much of it is not English based.

Posted By: of troy Re: Expressions - 11/27/00 01:58 PM
The standard response to useless information in NY is "that and a subway token will get you someplace" this is as old as the subways, and still in use.

and while I am city born and bred, as were both my parents, things are still "as crooked as a rams horn"

but I never told my children that their rooms looked "like the wreck of the Hesperis"
when I first went to London ‘70, and saw Turner's "Wreck of the Hesperis" I was in awe it still moves me–such beauty! Somehow "the wreck of the Hesperis" no longer seemed the thing to call a room with a few bits of clothes to be chucked into the hamper!

and I don't complain either that their rooms are like "dens of iniquity" When I learned what a den of iniquity was, I was of mix emotions–a bit shocked, and jealous– I wished my room had been a bit more like a den of iniquity, and not just littered with soda cans and popcorn after a gossip fest!

When my kids where young, both of us (ex and I) made a point of using as wide a vocabulary as we could, to make our kids aware. At one point, late on a weekend morning, my daughter was told to "get up out of bed with alacrity" she rolled over and told her father, if Alacrity wanted to get up, it was fine, but she wanted to sleep longer!
Its pretty hard to retain a stern parent demeanor when you're laughing as hard as we were!

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Animal expressions - 11/27/00 04:24 PM
"Nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs"

"Running around like a chicken with its head cut off"

"Older than dirt"

"... since Hector was a pup"

"... in a coon's age"

"In hog heaven"

"Happier than a pig in s@#t (or mud)"

"A woman needs a man like a fish..." oh, never mind


Posted By: Jackie Re: Animal expressions - 11/27/00 05:11 PM
Anna, all of these rang a bell with me. Do you know, when I was a child, I watched my father take hold of a chicken by its head, then swing it around until the body separated from the head--and the body did run around in ragged circles for a couple of minutes. Ah, youth--I only felt a
slight revulsion then--now it would make me sick.

One of our shut-out Brits says he feels like he has been
"sent to Coventry". What is that--gaol? Speaking of British sayings (?): my mother used the phrase "carrying coals to Newcastle".

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: Animal expressions - 11/27/00 06:33 PM
and the body did run around in ragged circles for a couple of minutes.

As a child, I used to think it was fun to watch our chickens actually flying for a minute or so after decapitation.


Posted By: Bobyoungbalt Re: Expressions - 11/27/00 09:09 PM
One of my old friends had one which my wife and I have adopted. Speaking of someone who talks big, we would say, "if B...s..t was music, he'd be a brass band."
Then there is the judgment that something is as useful as tits on a boar hog. (For the animal lovers.)

Posted By: wow Re: Animal expressions - 11/27/00 09:39 PM
No idea of the origin but to be "sent to Coventry" means no one speaks to you or acknowleges your presence. It's my understanding that it is common in English public (US private) schools. The practice was indulged in in school I attended but teachers put immediate stop to it saying it was too cruel for the minor social offenses perpetrated by grammar school children. Here are common bits of animal-based slang off the top of my head: scarce as hen's teeth; sick as a dog; raining cats and dogs; lower than a snake's belly; horny as a two-peckered billy goat. A bit scatalogical but succinct. Sorry if anyone finds it offensive. It is a very old saying. WOW

Posted By: Father Steve Re: Expressions - 11/28/00 03:16 AM
How about "a day late and a dollar short"? Where on earth did that arise?

Posted By: xara Re: Expressions - 11/28/00 02:36 PM
>>> "a day late and a dollar short"<<<

too little too late

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Expressions - 11/28/00 03:24 PM
here's a whole site full of phrases -- I can't speak to the veracity of the listed origins...
http://www.shu.ac.uk/web-admin/phrases/list/

Posted By: xara Re: Expressions - 11/28/00 05:13 PM
leap of faith

Posted By: lapsus linguae Re: Expressions - 11/29/00 01:17 AM
"I don't want to be speaking all in bland, neutral beige!"

Onya sista, i couln't agree more. Sure, correct spellun an gramar has it's place, but lets face it, it's the use of expressions, slang and colloquialisms that help provide a richness and texture to our daily communications. I'm sick to death of spending my days writing succint technical reports, give me a little breathing space and let me go with the flow here. At the risk of being howled down i'll give you my 2 cents worth. The ants pants and the ducks nuts are both perfectly splendid examples of... ummm... gee i'm not really sure, but they sound nice.
tongue in cheek, now that's another that comes to mind.

Posted By: ShyHeart Re: Expressions - 11/29/00 02:11 AM
Here are some expressions my mom used to use: #1)"My God all hemisphere!!" (Don't know if anyone else ever said that!) #2) "I wouldn't say 'Boo' to him." (Meaning she was slighting someone.) #3) "You kids would make a preacher swear!" (Voicing exasperation.) #4) "He's carrying on to beat the band." (He's upset, and making an excessive fuss.) #5) "She talks to hear her head rattle." (Said of someone given to mindless prattle.) #6) "She would cut off her nose to spite her face." (Said of a spiteful person.) #7) "He thinks the sun rises and sets in her." (Devoted to his beloved.) And, the way my dad described me as a kid who was crazy over horses -- #8) "She eats, sleeps, and breathes horses!"

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: Expressions - 11/29/00 02:28 AM
ShyHeart, your #7 reminds my of something my Southern grandma used to say: "He thinks she hung the moon."

Posted By: wow Re: Expressions - 11/29/00 03:13 AM
Here's one I recall my father's using although if it was original to him or not I know not. In regard to a person with lots to say without much thought behind the words : "He suffers from a constipation of the mind and a diarrhea of the mouth." Anyone else heard that? Or similar? I know I keep asking stupid questions but on the upside I believe you're never too old to learn especially when you are lucky enough to run with erudite company. WOW

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Expressions - 11/29/00 03:53 AM
>"My God all hemisphere!!" (Don't know if anyone else ever said that!)

...don't think I ever heard that, but I did know someone who said "If that ain't the World's Fair!" when he was exasperated.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Expressions - 11/29/00 03:59 AM
>constipation of the mind and diarrhea of the mouth

this one is fairly common (and gets some google hits!)

Posted By: drum Re: Animal expressions - 11/29/00 07:24 AM
Here are a couple my father uses frequently: That is as useless as balls on a sow (or tits on a bull)

Or one my brother always uses: Hold this while I call a policeman.

Posted By: belMarduk Re: Expressions - 11/29/00 07:13 PM
Oooo, maybe someone can explain this one...I don't know him from a hole in the wall (meaning you have no idea who the person is).

and for all ayleurs (sorry Jackie ) who are cuckoo over AWAD, we are all...a few bricks short of a load and the elevator doesn't go to the top. And when the elevator does go to the top, what do we find? Bats in the belfry.

Posted By: wow Re: Expressions - 11/29/00 09:13 PM
ayleurs ?? Please elucidate for newcomers. All I could find in OE was something about Grandfather suing because he was dispossessed of some land.
wow

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: Expressions - 11/29/00 09:43 PM
In reply to:

ayleurs??




Alas! "Ayleur" was derived from Anything You Like Except Unanimous - one of the suggestions given for an appellation fitting for participants here. I liked the sound of it, and its intrinsic paradox, but, there was almost unanimous animus toward the term, and it shrivelled away.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Expressions - 11/29/00 09:55 PM
max, she has a point (and I'm surprised this didn't come up before); ayle is an obsolete word for grandfather!

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: Expressions - 11/29/00 11:03 PM
max, she has a point (and I'm surprised this didn't come up before); ayle is an obsolete word for grandfather!


Kewl! Does that make an ayleur a really ancient grandfather?

Posted By: wow Re: Ancient meanings - 11/30/00 12:47 AM
Check out ayle in Oxford English and it will send you to the var aiel. Then see if you can figure out the definition on one, fast read-thru. Should I post this and take the chace of being the object or ridicule...oh, why not, one must keep one's pals amused! wow

Posted By: belMarduk Re: Ancient meanings - 11/30/00 02:01 AM
We use aïeul / aïeule when speaking of our grandfather / grandmother, but usually when singling them out to someone as the eldest of the family (eg. that person over there is the aïeul of our family).

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Ancient meanings - 11/30/00 02:23 AM
speaking of tangled webs (weren't we?), the 2nd OED citation for aile reads thusly:
c1386 Chaucer Knt.'s T. 1619, I am thyn Aiel redy at thy wille.

the 1st citation is almost indecipherable, is this what you were referring to Ann?
1377 Langl. P. Pl. B. xv. 317 To Šiue fram Šowre eyres · þat Šowre ayeles Šow lefte. [note the Icelandic thorn!]

Posted By: Marty Re: Ancient meanings - 11/30/00 03:01 AM
> þat Šowre ayeles Šow lefte. [note the Icelandic thorn!]

And here's me thinking it was only useful for emoticons :-þ

Can't think where I got that idea, tsuwm

Posted By: shanks The ayleurs are at the gate! - 11/30/00 08:18 AM
Love the thorn - though presumably you will allow those (like me) with less comprehensive type sets, to replace it with 'th'?

In any case, in the Langland citation, isn't the meaning 'ails'? Or have I missed the point? Perhaps an old person (see Bel's post) is an ailing person?

Anyway - I'm glad to see the resurrection of ayleurs - when I am old and grey and sitting by the fire, I shall think of thee...

Posted By: paulb Re: grandfather/grandmother - 11/30/00 11:21 AM
Incidentally, has anyone ever heard of a grandmother clock?

Posted By: wow Re: grandma tick-tock - 11/30/00 01:53 PM
Absolutely! A grandmother clock is a smaller, less expensive, usually less ornate version of a Grandfather's clock. In UK I believe it's a case clock.
There's an old song
"The Grandfather's clock was too large for the shelf/so it stood eighty years on the floor/ It was taller by half than the old man himself/ but it weighed not a pennyweight more" ....
there's a bit in there I forget....it ends with :
"...but it stopped /short/never to go again when the old man died."
Ah, sigh, sure and it brought a tear to the eye of an older, more sentimental generation.
I'm sure you'll get more on clocks from the TAGG. Aloha, wow
PS who wants to hazard a guess on TAGG ...my try at a new acronym. Aloha wow

Posted By: of troy Re: grandma tick-tock - 11/30/00 03:33 PM
There's an old song
"The Grandfather's clock was too large for the shelf/so it stood eighty years on the floor/ It was taller by half than the old man himself/ but it weighed not a
pennyweight more" ....
there's a bit in there I forget....it ends with :
"...but it stopped /short/never to go again when the old man died."


i have heard this song, it was written some time after the US Civil war, and the author other songs are well known...
Any barbarshop quartettes out there? About 20 years ago, a folk music show on WNYC, Woody's Children, (public radio) did a whole show on the songs of the man....
he also wrote some patriotic/propoganda songs for union -- though grandfathers clock was a later song.
the line "but it stopped /short/never to go again when the old man died." was part of the refrain (burden)

the only other song i remember for a series, was a related show about political songs that consists entirely of versions of "Rosen the bough" (For Lincoln and liberty too!)


Posted By: jmh Re: grandma tick-tock - 11/30/00 03:46 PM
>In UK I believe it's a case clock.

Funny, I've been told that before by an American friend but I've always called them gradfather/grandmother clocks, depending on size. I think that you are right, technically, they are called long case clocks but they are colloquially known as grandfather clocks.
http://www.grandfatherclockshop.co.uk/


Posted By: wow Re: grandma tick-tock - 11/30/00 04:33 PM
I picked up "long case clock" watching the experts on the British edition of "Antiques Roadshow." I'm fortunate in that in my area we get Public Television from Maine, Massachusetts and New Hampshire! The British "Roadshow" airs on both the Boston Public Television Station and the New Hampshire one. wow

Posted By: TEd Remington Re: Expressions - 11/30/00 07:20 PM
>.I don't know him from a hole in the wall

This may well be a takeoff on the phrase: Didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground." Years ago I ran across a humorous book of puns, each one a shaggy dog story built around the phrase I quoted. One of them was about the novice yachtsman who went aground and drowned after making a navigation mistake off Nantucket. His final ship's log entry read "Didn't know Mass. from a shoal in the sound." Another one was about the illiterate former slave who was sent to retrieve by stealth the body of his former master, a collateral descendant of George Washington, who had died in a Union POW camp. He brought back by mistake the body of a man named Washinsky, leading him to lament "Didn't know massa from a pole in the ground."

I guess you get the picture. I was raised in a demented household, which explains my tendency to nefandity (with apologies to tsuwm if nefandity isn't a real word: it should be.)

Posted By: TEd Remington ayleurs - 11/30/00 07:24 PM
WOW:

There was a great deal of discussion about ayleurs; some people loved it, others did not. I've assumed all along that those who hated it are probably cat-kickers too.

OK, tsuwm, is that as nefandous a pun as you are likely to get??? GRIN!!!

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Expressions - 11/30/00 10:23 PM
Didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground

I prefer the world-famous doesn't know his arse from his elbow.
Whilst less "in your face", it wins easily on surreality points.

Give us this day our Dali bread (TEd)..


Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Expressions - 11/30/00 10:26 PM
Does that make an ayleur a really ancient grandfather?

Yes, Max - so ancient that we thought him dead already, and may have buried him prematurely



Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Expressions - 11/30/00 10:32 PM
here's a whole site full of phrases http://www.shu.ac.uk/web-admin/phrases/list/

Hell's teeth, tsuwm, you've done it again!



Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Expressions - 11/30/00 10:42 PM
if B...s..t was music, he'd be a brass band

Similarly "If wit were sh*t you'd be constipated"

...which reminds me of another expression that the chefs used to apply to us waiters in bygone days

"If you had a brain you'd be dangerous"


Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Animal expressions - 11/30/00 10:55 PM
"A woman needs a man like a fish..." oh, never mind

How about we switch over to the expression "as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike"?

Then tsuwm finds ashtrayonamotorbike.com and you, dear Annatie, invite the site's creator/creatrix aBoard.

And (to cut a very long story short) we all live even more happily ever after.



Posted By: belMarduk Re: expressions - 12/01/00 02:04 AM
A common expression we say (French Québecois)when someone is complaining about having to do something that is not really all that difficult: écoute, c'est pas la mer à boire / listen up, it's not the sea to drink

Does anyone have anything similar? I seem to recall some English expression about not crying in oatmeal (or some other food).


Posted By: Father Steve Re: Expressions - 12/01/00 02:44 AM
Ichthys says: "...which reminds me of another expression that the chefs used to apply to us waiters in bygone days ..." I am put in mind of the delightful English television comedy "Chef" in which the conversation between the chef and the waiters was a model of abuse.


Posted By: Marty Re: expressions - 12/01/00 03:38 AM
bel,

Are you, peut-être, thinking of the expression "It's no use crying over spilt milk" (it's no use regretting something that is done, especially if it's trivial and easily fixed)?

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Animal expressions - 12/01/00 04:47 AM
>as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike

shona, this reminds me of that great philosophical question: what's the difference between a duck?

Posted By: Marty Re: Animal expressions - 12/01/00 05:16 AM
>that great philosophical question: what's the difference between a duck?

My initial reaction was "It's just a matter of a pinion", but I believe the traditional response is "One of its legs are both the same". Makes as much sense as many of our postings.

My father was fond of asking "How long is a piece of string?"


Posted By: Bingley Re: Animal expressions - 12/01/00 05:25 AM
In reply to:

No idea of the origin but to be "sent to Coventry" means no one speaks to you or acknowleges your presence.


It's said to date back to the Civil War (1640s) when Royalist prisoners of war were detained in Coventry, a Midlands town which was a staunch Parlimentarian stronghold, and ostracised by the townsfolk there.

One phrase much used as a mild expletive by a Dorset lass I know is "Do things to ducks."

Bingley

Posted By: shanks Re: expressions - 12/01/00 08:15 AM
écoute, c'est pas la mer à boire / listen up, it's not the sea to drink

A rather common one in the UK (and probably an import from across the pond, given our sometimes archaic technology) is: "It's not exactly rocket science, is it?", implying its not an intellectually taxing job.

Posted By: paulb Re: grandma tick-tock - 12/01/00 10:31 AM
"My grandfather's clock" was written by Henry Clay Work. There's a wonderful recording of the song made by 'Flotsam and Jetsam' (Malcolm McEachern and F C Hilliam) in the 1920s or early 1930s. The only other song of Work's that I know is "Poor Kitty Popcorn" on a recording made by Joan Morris and William Bolcom.

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Animal expressions - 12/01/00 10:39 AM
"One of its legs are both the same"

Not what it's quacked up to be, really.

"How long is a piece of string?" reminds me of a (at the time fashionably) miserable local band that advertised themselves with the strapline:
"How low can you get?"
To which some wag added:
"Lower."

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Expressions - 12/01/00 10:46 AM
the delightful English television comedy "Chef" in which the conversation between the chef and the waiters was a model of abuse

Isn't this the case worldwide, Father? I couldn't imagine a state of affairs where chefs were polite to waiters (although waiters are at least initially polite to chefs). You go through those double swing-doors and all hell breaks loose! If people only knew what happens in the kitchen...




Posted By: jmh Re: Expressions - 12/01/00 11:18 AM
What was the name he used for the waiters? I remember it as being particularly funny.

I remember seeing a programme about Lenny Henry trying to "break into" America. I don't think he ever really made it, unlike Tracy Ullman, one of his co-stars in "Three of Kind".

Posted By: TEd Remington Between - 12/01/00 12:49 PM
>what's the difference between a duck?

tsuwm:

You have reminded me of one of my pet peeves in journalism, the misuse of "between." "The bullet missed the policeman and lodged between the wall." I have been known to call the reporter, ask him to get his editor on the line with us, and then scream, "Between the wall and WHAT, you idiot?"

Also, since the bullet missed, who cares a rat's patoot where it ended up?



Posted By: FishonaBike extremities - 12/01/00 01:48 PM
who cares a rat's patoot

Love it, TEd!

But is it more or less significant than a bee's dick, that's what I want to know.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Animal expressions - 12/01/00 03:15 PM
>what's the difference between a duck?

yes, the *traditional answer is "one leg is both the same"; which is why, I suppose, there are many *optional answers. such as "the higher it flies, the much" and "a red door on a motorcycle" (which goes a long way towards explaining why I was reminded of this by "an ashtray on a motorbike").

Posted By: tsuwm Re: ayleurs - 12/01/00 03:38 PM
In reply to:

There was a great deal of discussion about ayleurs; some people loved it, others did not. I've assumed all along that those who hated it are probably cat-kickers too.


never ass/u/me -- I am an ayleurophobe and an airlurophile.

Posted By: Marty Re: ayleurs - 12/03/00 10:46 PM
>I am an ayleurophobe...

tsuwm!! I do hope you're referring to the word, not the people.

I agree with you about the word. Of all the messages I've posted and then regretted, that short one that containing the now-immortalized-in-an-acronym "anything you like except unanimous" is right up there. And I don't even get the royalties!

Posted By: belMarduk Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 02:11 AM
Marty, take that back!

I think a post that created such a hubbub, that got people discussing back and forth and that can still cause a stir (without hurting anyone) is quite masterful.

Voila, my two-cents.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 03:41 AM
>I do hope you're referring to the word, not the people.

I feel your concern, but you must recall that the word was never unanimously accepted by the people, so if I did mean the people it would only be those who accepted the word.

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 04:32 AM
so if I did mean the people it would only be those who accepted the word.

Je t'aime aussi, tsuwm!

Posted By: tsuwm Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 05:42 PM
I am getting an overwhelming sense of jamais vu.

Posted By: maverick Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 06:13 PM
an overwhelming sense of jamais vu

Stop wining, it could be worse, mate: Jamais Crû

Posted By: tsuwm Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 06:24 PM
>Stop wining, it could be worse, mate: Jamais Crû

mav, I would have never believed this of you.

joe (I will whine no whine before it's time) friday

Posted By: maverick Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 06:29 PM
Was my joke too bourgeois?

Posted By: tsuwm Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 06:43 PM
was mine too much Gallo humour?

Posted By: maverick Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 07:06 PM
I shall now bottle out and go see my family!

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 09:44 PM
I am getting an overwhelming sense of jamais vu.

Pourquoi? Je suis désolé, mais je ne comprends pas. Je t'aime, vraiment je t'aime.



Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 10:02 PM
I'm beginning to think that I should have taken French.

Posted By: Marty Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 10:19 PM
>I'm beginning to think that I should have taken French.

For once, Jazzockie, I can actually follow what's going on here. Mind you, I do sympathize - at times, on other threads, I feel as if I should have taken English. Or at least read some books.

Posted By: belMarduk Re: ayleurs - 12/04/00 10:47 PM
All right, settle down MaxQ and tsuwm. Am I going to have to start explaining about partners again?

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: ayleurs - 12/05/00 12:10 AM
Am I going to have to start explaining about partners again?

Anything but that! Perhaps you could regale us all with stories of moving days and shutdowns instead.

Posted By: shanks For JazzO - 12/05/00 08:47 AM
Pourquoi? Je suis désolé, mais je ne comprends pas. Je t'aime, vraiment je t'aime.

Just a quick translation with parenthetical notes, so Max's words will make sense in the context of the thread:

Poirot? (Famous Belgian detective - chauvinistically misspelled in France) He likes sweet flatfish (solé is also French for 'heart', so there is a subtle pun at work here.), which Maisie (the maid) cannot understand. She is a domestic ( the French t'aime was corrupted to the English 'tame', meaning domesticated), she wears the clothes of a domestic (her raiment is tame - all the Norman 'vr's were converted to 'r's in English, a process known as the Great Stick Shift).

Hope this helps.

cheer

the sunshine warrior

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: For JazzO - 12/05/00 09:16 AM
In reply to:

Just a quick translation with parenthetical notes, so Max's words will make sense in the context of the thread:

Poirot? (Famous Belgian detective - chauvinistically misspelled in France) He likes sweet flatfish (solé is also French for 'heart', so there is a subtle pun at work here.), which Maisie (the maid) cannot understand. She is a domestic ( the French t'aime was corrupted to the English 'tame', meaning domesticated), she wears the clothes of a domestic (her raiment is tame - all the Norman 'vr's were converted to 'r's in English, a process known as the Great Stick Shift).


Masterful! With JazzO supplying the etymythologies, and you supplying the "translations" our philological needs are filled. I just hope Bel didn't rupture anything from laughing too hard!


Omnis orbs terrarum patria mea est

Posted By: Capital Kiwi Re: For JazzO - 12/05/00 09:33 AM
Omnis orbs terrarum patria mea est

Translates as:

Buses' eyes keep turtles in glass boxes with low wattage bulbs for Patricia Mea out west.

Well, it beats the ego expressed in the Latin, anway!

Orba sum et ego orbo

Posted By: TEd Remington Latin translation at its worst :) - 12/05/00 03:55 PM
>
Omnis orbs terrarum patria mea est

Translates as:

Buses' eyes keep turtles in glass boxes with low wattage bulbs for Patricia Mea out west.

And here I thought it meant all eyes were on Mae West's terrific patties!

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: For JazzO - 12/05/00 06:39 PM
[Well it beats the ego expressed in the Latin, anyway!

I am afraid that you have the advantage over me, CK. I inserted that signature line after tracking down the Latin version of a phrase attributed to Seneca in my atlas: "I was not born for one corner of the earth, the whole world is my native land." I could only find the last part in Latin, and when I did, it was on a UN page. Here's the paragraph from which I copied the "egotistical" phrase in question:

Speaking on the topic of world peace, Roman philosopher Seneca who lived at the time of Christ said: "There will be world peace when we create a new generation which is capable of transcending all boundaries and divisions and say with realization: Omnis orbs terrarum patria mea est -- the whole world is my native land." This is one of the greatest challenges we are facing today. World citizenship is a goal which we should reach, the sooner the better, for it eventually creates the concept of a genuine global community.

I was puzzled by "orbs", and inserted the signature line in the hope that one of the Latin literati here might be able to validate it, or correct it. Having never studied Latin, I couldn't shake the feeling that "orbs" looked wrong, and that the word should have been "orbis" instead.

After all that blethering, what I'm saying is that I am at loss to figure out how the quote is a display of ego. I guess that's a good demonstration of why one should not use foreign language quotes without being certain of their meaning.


Posted By: Capital Kiwi Re: For JazzO - 12/06/00 09:00 AM
MQ snapped: After all that blethering, what I'm saying is that I am at loss to figure out how the quote is a display of ego.

Not you, not you, Maxie. It was a kick at Seneca - although I hadn't been able to remember whether it was him or Cicero who said it.

And, flagellating himself furiously: I guess that's a good demonstration of why one should not use foreign language quotes without being certain of their meaning.

It's never stopped me - as you will have noticed.

And, I was puzzled by "orbs", and inserted the signature line in the hope that one of the Latin literati here might be able to validate it, or correct it. Having never studied Latin, I couldn't shake the feeling that "orbs" looked wrong, and that the word should have been "orbis" instead.

Well, you're a quick study and it was well-spotted. It should, indeed, be "orbis" (he said ducking for cover). From memory (which you already know has its little lapses), the world word is orbis -is (m). Another member of this worthy forum (at least) knows more Latin than I do and may wish to correct me.

I suspect that if Seneca was alive today, he would be saying, in English: "The whole universe is my homeland". Patria meant more than just "country" to the Romans, and omnis orbis terrarum was the biggest "thing" they knew of. Romans tended to be bloody parochial, though. Look at the origins of the word "barbarian".


Posted By: Capital Kiwi Re: Latin translation at its worst :) - 12/06/00 09:02 AM
TEd the Shaver said And here I thought it meant all eyes were on Mae West's terrific patties!

Thanks - I was tired and couldn't figure out how to get Mae West in there. Perfect! You're obviously a much more accomplished Latin translator than I am.

Posted By: emanuela Re: For JazzO - 12/06/00 11:40 AM
Patria meant more than just "country" to the Romans

Of course, since it contains the meaning of "pater" (father): the country in which (I and) my ancestors were born and lived

Emanuela

Posted By: jmh Re: For JazzO - 12/06/00 01:11 PM
>After all that blethering

How good it is to see the Scots as she is spoken! Congratulations Max - better than borin' ole Lat'n any day!

Posted By: maverick Re: For JazzO - 12/06/00 01:22 PM
borin' ole Lat'n

Molesworth, see me later in my study...

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: For JazzO - 12/07/00 10:45 PM
>borin' ole Lat'n
Molesworth, see me later in my study...


Down wiv Skool I sa!

Lat'n is for weeds lyk Fotherington-Thomas who is uterly wet and a sissy.



Posted By: Capital Kiwi Re: For JazzO - 12/08/00 09:20 AM
The pisco said Down wiv Skool I sa!

Lat'n is for weeds lyk Fotherington-Thomas who is uterly wet and a sissy.


Now, was that Fotherington-Thomas Major (famous for throwing up over Matron on Sports Day and for misunderstanding the precise nature of his duties as a fag for the Head Prefect), or was it Fotherington-Thomas Minor, reputedly recruited by MI5 straight out of primary school?

And were you listening to "The Wall Part 2" when you wrote the post?

Just curious.

Posted By: shanks Re: For JazzO - 12/08/00 11:05 AM
And were you listening to "The Wall Part 2" when you wrote the post?

And with an apology from my Mum, who heard of Stevie Wonder's "Masterblaster" and thought it was an anti-teacher diatribe. (This younger generation, no respect for teachers. Disgustin')

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