it has been observed here by members of the UKind that USns just don't get irony. this morning I found, on another word forum, a post by "arnie" from London that I think explains the whole problem rather well:

Irony is a form of expression in which an intended meaning is the opposite of the literal meaning of the words used. So if I were to yell "Nice driving!" at another driver who had just forced me to brake sharply, I'd be using irony.

Sarcasm is intended to wound or hurt another; it is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule. If I were to nominate GW Bush for the Nobel Peace Prize I'd be using sarcasm.

There is often a fine line between irony and sarcasm: the difference is that sarcasm is used with intent to wound.

The English use irony very often when making humorous remarks, and this sometimes causes friction in their dealings with Americans, who mistake the irony for sarcasm.

are you being facetious?

There we go again, separated by a common tongue.

When an USn yells, "Nice driving!" at a poor driver, he is intending to wound or hurt the poor driver. If he were to nominate GW Bush for the Nobel Peace Prize he would be using language in the opposite of its literal meaning.

and to make matters worse, arnie is prolly a USn expat, living in London.

incidentally, I always have read "USn" as yew-es-en (not us-en), which makes "an USn" look really wrong, to me.

I read USns Ewe-ess-ens, too.

We really must work on our delivery. If I caused someone to brake suddenly, and he yelled out with a warm smile and a twinkle in his eye [or the arched brow of the mycterismus], "Nice driving!" I would catch the irony in his statement and wouldn't feel wounded. However, were the same set of circumstances to occur, and he yelled out the window with a scowl on his face and perhaps a fist extended or some other such manual maneuver, "Nice driving!"--well, no matter how thickly British his accent might be, I'd take that as sarcasm.

The AHD etymology of sarcasm seems a bit peculiar to me:
sarcasm

SYLLABICATION: sar·casm
PRONUNCIATION: särkzm
NOUN: 1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound. 2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule. 3. The use of sarcasm. See synonyms at wit1.
ETYMOLOGY: Late Latin sarcasmus, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein, to bite the lips in rage, from sarx, sark-, flesh.

Odd, wwh. I had some flimsy memory of sarcasm having to do with the tearing of flesh. I must be remembering incorrectly the derivation of another word. I wonder what it could have been?

Irony is a form of expression in which an intended meaning is the opposite of the literal meaning of the words used.

Yet, there's *nothing worse than mistaking sarcasm for irony.

... is a Faldaggian take-off on 'usns', a Southern US variant of the first-person plural objective pronoun.

-ronnette not-so-obvious

he yelled out with a warm smile and ... the arched brow of the mycterismus

Ah, yes, the mycterismus. A close cousin of the paralipsis ... of which the most famous example is Mark Anthony's oration over the body of Caesar.

"We come to bury Caesar, not to praise him. ... When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept. Ambition should be made of sterner stuff."

And, in the same oration, the most famous example of irony [I submit]:

"O masters, if I were disposed to stir
Your hearts and minds to mutiny and rage,
I should do Brutus wrong, and Cassius wrong,
Who, you all know, are honourable men"

Ewe-ess-ens

take-off on 'usns'

Y'all are both right. It was derived from the first person dative/accusative pronoun but used in the nominative. At the same time it was intended to refer to citizens of the USA. In its most proper usage it wasn't intended to be used by anyone other than USns, but once it escaped the tips of my fingers it became public domain and, like children, no longer under the creator's control.

FWIW, here's how I use the terms.

The definition I use for irony is "mocked by fate". Someone may well say something ironic, but never intentionally so. "Nice driving" would only be ironic if, in the process of shouting it and waving one's clenched fist, one crashed. I accept that many people use the -"Nice weather we're having" when it's raining- definition of irony but that is, to me, simply sarcasm with no intent to harm, if not merely a conversation-starter. I use sarcasm as "a form of expression in which an intended meaning is the opposite of the literal meaning of the words used". My usual intent is humour, not harm.

The incorrect use of the terms irony, ironic, and ironical (yes, I've heard it many times) is one of my pet hates.

Mike, your definition of irony in the first post in this thread was not quite right. If someone has a near accident, involving someone else, but manages to avoid the actual event by sheer luck or the intervention of some deity, and looks scared or sheepish afterwards, and you yell "Nice driving!", that's irony. If the driver nearly causes an accident and then acts as if nothing happened and you yell "Nice driving!", it could be irony or sarcasm, depending upon the tone of voice you say it in.

- Pfranz

>Mike, your definition of irony in the first post in this thread was not quite right.
'Cos I'm in the mood to pick a nit, I feel I ought to point out that the definition given in tsuwm's post was one he found elsewhere, so the phrase, "Mike your defintion of irony in the firstpost" is not strictly speaking 100% correct.

Nice nit-picking...you'll all have to guess at my tone of voice, ha ha ha

thanks sjm and jackie (I think); I probably should have said, in that first post, that I found something that exemplifies the whole problem. and 'arnie' claims to be from London, at that.
-joe (po-faced) tuesday

Well, something that USns have never shown a great deal of aptitude for, along with logical reasons for invading countries in the Middle East. Is there anything ironic about the putative invasion? "Nice disarmament, Saddam." Tone of voice v-e-e-e-e-e-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-y important.

- Pfranz