Oh, yes, that is a great site!
You know what, though? I learned that rhyme as
Red sky at night, sailor's delight;
Red sky at morning, sailor take warning.
Isn't it neat how so many of us learn the "same" things, but with variations here and there? Jean Ritchie mentioned that in her "Singing Family of the Cumberlands"--how the same song would have slightly different words or tune in different parts of the mountains.

That's so true, Jackie. Try teaching folk songs in an elementary music class sometime. I always know that whatever song I introduce, a little hand will go up and some child will say (at least one child) that the words are wrong. It's fun to hear the variations--and it's such a good point to develop so that the kids will be alerted about differences in lyrics in folk songs, even within a very limited geographical area.

But back to the link I posted. It was interesting to read that Jesus had mentioned the same basic weather forecasting tool. And, according to the link, 7 out of 10 ain't bad for folk weather predictions.

We've had this enormously unusual winter in Virginia, and, those of you who know me, know for a fact that I reported that the oak grove out here on the farm had a covering of acorns this fall so thick that it looked like a huge lid off of a huge can of acorns had been screwed off, the acorns were so tightly packed against each other. Can't complain, however. The deer from the wood have come out to feed so often this winter that they're even beginning to peer through the family room window.

I was thinking the same things about folk songs. so many versions, so little time!!


-Old Joe Clark

The guy who built a house in a week and combed his hair with a wagon wheel?

round and round, I say!

I learnt this rhyme as:

Red sky at night, shepherd's delight, red sky in the morning, shepherd's warning.

Jackie, if KY is landlocked, why would the sailor's version be common there? Lack of shepherds perhaps?

From WW's site: Generally speaking, seven out of ten red sunsets usually indicate good weather in northern climates.

Is the situation different in the southern hemisphere? Does weather move from W to E in the northern hemisphere but differently in the southern hemisphere?

Bingley

We use the "shepher's" version here too, but did not want to say earlier to minimise ribaldry. As to the direction of weather, most of ours, where I live seems to move from west to east. Most weather systems affecting uys are spawned either in Australia or in the Tasman Sea, and moved westward toward Zild. That's why the East Coast (of both islands) is largely sheltered from much of the dynamic weather patterns. Here in Hawke's Bay, weather from the east (the Pacific, which we are having right now, means grey and/or wet weather for around 3 days.

The other major direction in which weather moves here is south-north. Many of our fronts are generated around Antarctica and work their way down here.

Sorry for the delay, Bingley--when I first came upon this thread I didn't have time to reply. I see you're a pooh-bah now--congratulations. Yes, Kentucky's landlocked: the Ohio is a mighty river but it ain't no ocean, so I dunno why that's the version my mother learned, but that's what she taught me. I've never heard the shepherd version. Now there's irony for you: me, landlocked, learning sailor, and you and sjm, on islands (albeit large ones) learning shepherd.

sjm, you were part of the reason I didn't want to post in haste; my thoughts have been in a whirl, trying to think of some logical reason why you're South, bottom, and I'm North, top--and I can't come up with one! Which way is up, on a sphere?

>Which way is up, on a sphere?


Which is precisely the point of little affectation. I live on "The Fish of Maui", and the far north of the island is the tail, with the southern extremity being the head, so Maaori have long gone down North, and up South, at least on this island, and this trait has been carried over into Maaori English. But for me, it is a deliberate affectation to highlight the point you raise.

It's simple, really. Up is the direction away from the sphere if that sphere is the primary gravitational influence. This up gets normalized to the center pole of the celestial sphere, the pin about which the celestial sphere rotates. In the northern hemisphere this is the Pole Star, in the southern hemisphere there is no star quite that close to the preferred spot, but the celestial sphere does rotate about a point to the south that is the definitive up. If you get close enough to the equator you'll find that cultural definitions of up, as shown on maps, will be in other directions, usually based on some important city.

(with apologies to ron o.)