I just received an e-mail message from a chum in the Mother Country in which he used the word "computerate." From the context, I discern his intent to mean "someone who knows things about computers and who speaks the language which computer-familiar people speak." Ever heard of this? How you do like it?
Hiya Paw,
I think "computerate" stinks, and I hope I never do hear it outside the current context!
However, being a potentially useful compression of "computer literate", I'll bet it's with us for generations.
Having spent years with people who proudly deem themselves 'Computer Geeks' (most of whom have recently graduated from college and now make $50-80k in their first 'real' job
) I have heard computerate often enough. Usually, though, I hear it as a verb... "He is computerating." I doubt that you'll see any less of it for a long time, wheter it is used as a verb or a noun.
There is a lexicon of computer hacker termionology located at http://www.science.uva.nl/~mes/jargon/ ... but it does not contain "computerate."
I found the following at the website of the Chronicle of Higher Education:
computerate adj. Computer literate. Greg Ulmer, an English professor at the University of Florida, says universities must "teach students to be as computerate as they are literate." His students use hypertext and multimedia elements in their writing assignments, he adds.
It is almost instantly recognisable, and it doesn't corrupt an existing word by giving it a new meaning, and hence losing much-loved distinction (gay, tandem etc being examples of such). Long may it live with us.
but, alas, the verb form will ineluctably proliferate, take the past tense, and become entwined with computer-aided (as in ~ design [CAD]).
And won't that teach the ruddy Americans to distinguish their ts from their ds when speaking? Huzzah for RP - we shall rule the world through accent alone (with a touch of stiff upper lippery)! ;->
cheer
the sunshine warrior
who are you calling rutty??
Day-em. An ah thote yuall'ed be pleeyuzd with thuh caampluhment.
Day-em. An ah thote yuall'ed be pleeyuzd with thuh caampluhment.
To find as twangy an accent as that you'd have to travel to the deep South: South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama.
I'd say that the US has about 8 distinct genres of accent: far North-East, Boston, New York City, ghetto, Wisconsin, Midwest, mild Kentucky twang and deep South.
The Midwestern accent is the dominant one. It stretches from Pennsylvania all the way to California. Florida, being a largely transplant population also has a fairly Midwestern accent.
The "Wisconsin" accent has a Canadian flavor and includes Minnesota as well. Detroit also has a hint of this accent.
To find the "ghetto" accent just go to any city's downtown area.
Does anyone agree with this or am I just crazy?
To find the "ghetto" accent just go to any city's downtown area
Hey Jazz,
Which brings up something I have been wondering about for a bit...a year or so ago we were hearing a lot about "Ebonics" being taught in schools as a language spoken by inner city African Americans. It was also said that there were some schools where only Ebonics was spoken.
I thought this was somewhat limiting for the children since, outside of their neighborhoods, Ebonics was not a spoken language and would therefore limit these children to their own back yard. What also seemed troubling was that the examples we got were simply examples of English being spoken incorrectly (errors in grammar, verb tenses, word definitions etc). This gave the impression that the language was a type of slang, and slang, being what it is, changes dramatically and quickly – thus rendering the teaching of it obsolete since it has changed by the time it reaches the blackboard.
I realize, though, that what is on the news is not alway accurate and often a reflection of the values of the that particular broadcaster.
Were the presented facts accurate? Are schools still teaching this language and is it really a "street" version of English?
I'd say that the US has about 8 distinct genres of accent: far North-East, Boston, New York City, ghetto, Wisconsin, Midwest, mild Kentucky twang and deep South. JazzO, I figure you're joking, but at the risk of YARTing, may I respectfully direct you to the late, great Frederic Cassidy's Dictionary of American Regional English and its little sister, the Linguistic Atlases:
http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/dare/dare.html
I'd say that the US has about 8 distinct genres of accent: far North-East, Boston, New York City, ghetto, Wisconsin, Midwest, mild Kentucky twang and deep South.
Having lived in the 'DeepSouth' all my life (and having closest to your Midwestern accent myself, unless I have a reason to sound Southern) I could easily say that there are a dozen 'Southern' accents. Where I live now, I hardly notice any accent among the locals, though when I'm talking to someone from elsewhere they always comment that everyone (except me) here has such a strong accent. However when I go back to the town where I grew up I hear a very strong and very different accent from the Raleigh/Durham accent that I'm used to. Likewise, I have friends from other hometowns within a 150 mile radius, and when I hear their parents (or their) accents, they are very different than my parents' and from the 'local' way of speaking. I suppose if you wanted to be very general, you could say that there are just a few broad types of accents. However doing so would leave out vast variations within those categories.
I'd say that the US has about 8 distinct genres of accent:To which I would add, "and only one speed: Excruciatingly slow" - at least for Antipodeans. No matter whence in the US, or Canada, they come, North Americans whose first English is English seem to take a week to finish a salutation. In the early 1980's, the NZ tourist board put together a promtional video narrated by one of our most popular newsreaders, a man noted for his careful enunciation. When it aired in the US, stations which carried it were apparently inundated with complaints that he was talking far too fast!
computerate adj. Computer literateThanks Pa.
I suppose I'm starting to see some benefits to the adjective (says he guardedly). But how the heck does this become a verb??
"I am computer literating"
it's a-totally-nother usage; computerate - to compute. aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgh!!
[metallic voice]..this does not computerate...this does not computerate...this does not computerate...
[metallic voice]...this does not computERate...this does not computatER...this does not computatER...ER...ER...computate...computate...
So Fish, just like all diets, your plan to reduce the volume of posting starts...er...tomorrow?
Just a useless stat, but if Jackie had kept up your pace (136 posts in 13 days) since she registered, she'd now be at something in excess of 2200 posts, rather than her
very modest 800+, and we'd all be that much the wiser about the stratospheric levels beyond Old Hand.
your plan to reduce the volume of posting starts...er...tomorrow?
Er.. yes, that's it.
Tell you what, I'll make this my last ever "chat" posting. Only value-adding comments from now on.
And I'll get on with building a runway for the flying pigs.
However when I go back to the town where I grew up I hear a very strong and very different accent from the Raleigh/Durham accent that I'm used to
Yes, xara, this is also my experience over in UK. Agreed that the differences in pronunciation in UK are much wider and over much smaller distances - but despite that, there is a noticeable difference between both pronunciation and usages betweeen villages and towns only six or eight miles apart. A Galgate, Lancashire, person will immediately spot a person from Garstang, Lancashire, by his or her accent. It is even apparent to observant incomers to the area (like myself!)
I first noticed the phenomenon in Northampton shire, when I travelled all over that small county - it is c40 miles long and perhaps twenty-five wide - and there are very distinct differences between Daventry, at the West end and Irthlingboro at the East, with a dozen variations in between. Even the main river, the Nene. changes its name from "Nen" West of Oundle, to "Neen" East of that town.
It is a fascinating study, and it makes you realise that Prof. Henry Higgins was not making an idle boast when he said he could spot whch street you were born in!
I have noticed, however, particularly in London, that accent seems less a marker of geography than it is of social status. The 'cut glass' accent is widespread, but rare. Estuary English seems to be the choice of the media classes. Sarf-east Lunnon is everywhere amongst the lower middle class, and so on. The working class, I suspect, is more easily geographically identifiable, but only because they are less likely to be mobile.
The whole subject is as you say, fascinating.
I met some young Irish fellers from a small rural town (forget which) a few years ago... they were working their way across the U.S. They started out in NYC, yet despite the huge Irish population there, they had some trouble understanding the local urban speech (when I met them we had a little difficulty, too, but after agreeing to slow down and share a few pints all was well
).
They wrote me later to tell me that when they hit the Appalachian mountains (a relatively poor section of the Eastern US, much of which was settled by the Irish) they found they could understand almost all and were amazed at the expressions they heard that were current both in that rural area and in their rural hometown. There are many pockets in Appalachia even today that are geographically/economically isolated linguistic communities, with expression that date back to the Elizabethan era (no, I can't think of a single example right now). You'll also notice the similarity between bluegrass and Irish music.
>London - accent seems less a marker of geography than it is of social status
The difference with London and say, Nottingham is that very few people you meet in London originate there. The taxi drivers and typists come in every day from Essex or Kent or whichever part of the estuary is closer. The media types probably come from Cumbria, Edinburgh or Manchester. If you are in a famous London teaching hospital many of the staff will be from the West Indies or India. It's a great big melting pot.
I'm sure the same would be true of other world cities. I wonder how many of the people in top jobs in New York were born there?
Regional accents in the UK do tend to be very local. Manchester, where I went to school, had a range of accents which seemed to change every five miles or so, add a few Asian and Caribbean variations and the range was huge.
>pockets in Appalachia
Which goes back to Bill Bryson's book, saying that so much of America was isolated that many of the expressions are much older than those in use in their country of origin in the present day.
Both my parent are immigrants to NY from Dublin, and when I told my mother that I had been complimented on my clear pronunciation, and lack of NY errors (adding R's where none belong, and removing them from where they are, the NY variant of cockney H) she was non plussed--She was of the opinion that Dublin English was the richest and most refined of all!
But while still a child, (under 18) I met a man I would eventually marry (and divorce!) and used what I thought was a common word. He looked at me and said, "No such word" the argument was a draw; I found the word in the OED, but the OED said "Archaic". I stopped using the word.
>I wonder how many of the people in top jobs in New York were born there?<
US census data has about 40% of NYC residents born in other US states,
and 30% from other countries...
No real numbers available on "illegals", obviously!
>She was of the opinion that Dublin English was the richest and most refined of all!
Sounds fair enough to me.
>OED said "Archaic". I stopped using the word
Sounds like a good argument for keeping the word, losing the man! (Join the campaign for archaic words in common use, look what it did for tsuwm!)
But what was the word, my fair colleen?
>Join the campaign for archaic words in common use, look what it did for tsuwm!
Autumn has brought the coolth again, and Halloween approaches with all its ghastful wraiths and ropery. It's an ugsome truth that winter follows close upon whence we will relume the hearthfires and shout "gardyloo!" whilst throwing the cat into the garboil.
...or words to that effect.
>Autumn has brought the coolth again ...
You sure know the way to a young girl's heart. Forget the flowers and diamonds just hit me with those archaic words!
'Coolth' one of my favourites too. Thanks tsuwm.
>But while still a child, (under 18)
i am now the same age as Jackie, but that is only because i liked the idea of stopping on a prime number (I remain in my prime) instead of the more typical 49 or X9.
The word is lost in the mist of time... and as for the man, yes i did wise up and dump him!
In reply to:
i liked the idea of stopping on a prime number (I remain in my prime) instead of the more typical 49 or X9
From Saki's "The Match-Maker":
"The crisis came," returned Clovis, "when she suddenly started the theory that late hours were bad for one, and wanted me to be in by one o'clock every night. Imagine that sort of thing for me, who was eighteen on my last birthday."
"On your last two birthdays, to be mathematically exact."
"Oh, well, that's not my fault. I'm not going to arrive at nineteen as long as my mother remains at thirty-seven. One must have some regard for appearances."
http://www.fluxus.freeserve.co.uk/Clovis/TheMatch-Maker.html
Bingley
Well, yes, my son, has raised the issue. He is persisting in getting older, and has made me a grandmother to boot! I still look younger than my age, and when someone express surprise that i am a granny, i reply "It easy if you start having children when you're only 12" -- They are never sure whether or not i am serious, and move on to an other subject!
never sure whether or not i am seriousHah! I love it, Helen. Keep launchin' those ships