Don't think I've seen a thread on the names we are called that reflect where we live - apologies if there has been one. There's been bits n pieces, but not a whole thread.
We've heard mention of Hoosiers (loved the previous post about the College team's banner - "Hoosier Daddy?"), Scousers, the "Show Me" state and so on.
Some terms may be offensive - I for one would like to know why and seek guidance as to when/if it is appropriate to use them. Jappie (South African - pron yar-pee), Mick (Irish) (Hi GallantTed) and Wetback probably fall into this category.
Take me frinstance - a proud Sandgroper (former New South Welshman, son of a Mexican (Victorian - south of the border!) and a Cockney). Why? Every hole we dig tells you why - Perth sits on unconsolidated sands 3 kilometres deep. Completely inoffensive.
Let's start with Canuck........I'd like to know why.
stales
What do you mean Canuck is offensive? I never thought that. We have a hockey team bearing that name. I seem to remember it came from some cartoon character. Let me go looking...
Directly from ASKJEEVES.COM
"Canuck" Defined
One of the most common questions I get asked when we travel into the USA to cheer on the Canucks is "What's a Canuck?" The simple answer is "a Canadian". The complete answer takes a little more explanation.
Years ago, I was watching a sports commentary show where the topic was team names. During an interview with Stan Fischler, the New York sports reporter commented that he didn't like the name "Canucks" because it was an offensive term (worse than "Redskins" or "Indians"). What was he talking about? We all know that "Canuck" is just another word for "Canadian".
In a seemingly unrelated story, I had just installed a copy of WordPerfect on my computer. WordPerfect has many great features, including a grammar checker (so much for thinking that I'm a pretty good writer). After producing a road trip brochure, I thought I'd give the grammar checker a try. The first thing it found:
CANUCK: Avoid this offensive term. Consider revising.
Huh? So, now we have to change the name of our hockey team? I don't think so.
- - -
Okay, so just exactly what is a Canuck and why is it an offensive term? Then again, if the word is so insulting, why did they name our team the "Canucks"? Off to the library I went.
The first dictionary I checked reported:
CANUCK () n. Slang. Canadian [sometimes offensive or patronizing in non-Canadian use]. Origin obscure.
Boy, when they said "origin obscure" they weren't kidding. It seemed like every dictionary had a different origin for the word. One suggested that the word came from CANUC which is used vulgarly and rather contemptuously for Canadian. Another suggested that it came from CONNAUGHT which was a nickname given by French Canadians to describe Irish Canadians in the early 1800's.
Finally, there was a suggestion that "Canuck" began as the Hawaiian word KANAKA which represented a south sea islander (no, not a New York Islander). It seems that French Canadians and these islanders were both employed in the Pacific Northwest fur trade and the term was used to describe them. The theory is that the word evolved, taking "CAN" from "Canadian" and adding it to "AKA" to form CANAK (CANUCK).
Wherever the word came from, by the mid 1800's "Canuck" was regularly used to describe a Canadian.
In the 1860's, editorial cartoonists created a character by the name of "Johnny Canuck". Johnny was used to represent Canada, just as Uncle Sam represented the United States. Johnny Canuck was depicted as a wholesome young man, wearing the garb of a habitant, farmer, logger, rancher or soldier. Johnny was often drawn resisting the bullying of Uncle Sam. Boy, we could use someone like that now to keep our NHL teams in Canada.
Johnny had one flaw -- he wasn't too bright. This may explain something. Let's say your best friend comes up to you, pats you on the back and calls you a goof. You laugh it off. On the other hand, if someone you had never met did the same thing, you might take them out back and settle the issue. Maybe that's why Canadians can call themselves Canucks and be proud of it, but don't let those darn Yankees call us Canucks!
During World War II, a new comic book hero was introduced. His name was also Johnny Canuck. This time, Mr. Canuck was a caped strong man who protected Canadians from the Nazi menace. Johnny Canuck had no special powers, but he waged a one man war against Hitler with human strengths belonging to any fine fighting Canuck. Tell someone from Holland that you are a Canuck and they will thank you for liberating their country from the Nazis.
- - -
So, now we have the Canadian image of a Canuck. Powerful (not superhuman but capable). A defender of Canada. A fighter. A tough guy (in spirit and in body). Sounds like a hockey player.
When Vancouver was admitted to the Pacific Coast Hockey League in 1946, they seized upon the image of a team of Canucks. The name worked. Despite the fact that we don't hear much about Johnny Canuck anymore, the term "Canuck" still represents the best qualities of being a Canadian
in the utmost
Boy, based on that subject I expected an <R> rating
...
former New South Welshman, son of a Mexican (Victorian - south of the border!)
Which means - to make matters all the more confusing YOU would be an ex-Mexican to a Banana-bender / Cane Toad (Queenslander).
From the Cockroach.. eeww! [scrunched up face-e]
Hev
Whoa there bel - I never said Canuck was offensive. Just a case of unfortunate placement in my post.
Interesting debate though - your 2nd post indicates that it is or was offensive to at least some of your fellow Connaughts.
stales
Calling a South African a Yappie or van der Merwe is never acceptable. I do it all the time. van der Merwe is the archetypal dumb Boer, and calling a South African of English extraction that is a call to arms.
In Zild we have Jafas. It's short for "Just Another F***ing Aucklander" and can be applied to anyone from north of the Bombay Hills. And usually is. "Jafa" is now an acceptable form of speech - it's often used on the radio and TV.
Calling a South African a Yappie or van der Merwe is never acceptable
I've heard of the term "Kaffke" for a South African, but I have no idea of the meaning, or whether or not it is offensive. Anyone offer any advice?
Kiwis: East Islanders (and they call us West Islanders).
South Australians: Crow eaters (explanation Doc?)
Hev
Hev
It's Kaffir.
And it is EXTREMELY offensive.
Always.
To everybody in South Africa - black or white.
I know - from a first hand experience with a Dutch South African. My attempt at jocularity with him is something I will always regret, it lowered me below the level of the gutter in his eyes. And, if the person you are with does not find it a contemptible term, you should ask yourself whether they deserve your company.
All - please take heed and don't use it - it's as bad / worse(?) than the n- word in the USA.
stales
Edit: Seems I got it right. Found the following quote at an informative (pointed) essay about South Africa at http://www.uwlax.edu/ereserves/cox/soc225/south_africa.htm "In Arabic, kaffir originally meant infidel, today it is a racial slur like the n word in US"
Crow eatersWell, perhaps it's because they're all Parsees? Although you'd never know it to look at the average South Striner ...
Hey, but what about Taswegians?
We have Biffos which are Big, ignorant F***ers from Offaly.
I don't find Micks an offensive term but it can be, whereas Paddy is far more acceptable. We sometimes use it to describe ourselves.
A Jackeen is someone from Dublin whereas a Culchee is someone from anywhere else!! A more offensive term would be a muck savage!
Newfie has the same good/bad connotations as Canuck. It's OK for Newfoundlanders to call each other Newfies, but for a mainlander to do so is usually taken as an insult. When you're a CFA (Come-From-Away: not a Newfie but you live here, like me), I'm not sure what the stance is. I would only use "Newfie" in a loving way, but I'm not sure all Newfoundlanders would see it that way, since my name, my face, and my accent immediately identify me as a CFA. Therefore, I don't use the term unless I am alone with other CFAs. Mainlanders could get the wrong idea, and Newfoundlanders might be offended. Anyway, I've read many a spirited discussion of whether or not people are offended by Newfie, and a consensus is rarely reached. My advice is: to be safe, don't use it.
A note to Sparteye: the dogs are usually referred to as Newfs. I don't know why! [puzzled]
Good heavens, what a lot I learn from this board! It never occurred to me to think that a person from NSW would be called a NS Welshman. Is that what you-all call the females, too? And you call folks south of YOUR border
Mexicans?? How funny! Also I have never heard of Jappie (or Yappie)--I have the feeling I ought to know where it came from, but I don't. Kaffir kind of rings a bell. I'll try to remember not to use it, although it's pretty unlikely that I'm going to run into anyone from SA. And sandgroper? Cane toad? Very strange...
I suppose I ought to add hillbillies (singular hillbilly), the derogatory name for folk who lived in the Appalachian Mountains. There is still too much ignorance and poverty there, but the typical stereotype has gone. It's a hard place to live. Rural, but very limited arable land: either narrow strips along the valley ("hollers"--hollows)
floors, or terrace out a plot along the mountainside. Very hard work. It's not an easy place to get around in, either; snows or floods, etc., can close down the one bridge or roadway into/out of an area; if that happens, kids have no alternate route to get to school. A real shame, that. I remember what Catherine Marshall wrote in her book about her time there, "Christy", which I believe is essentially a true story: that a resident told her that in some places, the land was so steep you could stand up and bite the ground.
belMarduk,
I have heard KANAKA used regularly in Germany by foreigners and Germans to refer to foreigners from Southern European and Arabic countries too - Especially those from 'Gastarbeiter' families who often came from very poor parts of Turkey (for example) and speak very poor German and Turkish, and whose families are generally poorly educated are dubbed 'Kanaka'. I never knew that Kanaka was a Hawaiian word or that it means human being though.
Isn't it funny how the intent behind the use of these informal terms, and the person saying them can make such a difference. In one case a word represents ethnic or group pride, and in the next breathe its derogatory. I was at a party about a year ago talking to this bloke, and he said something which seemed to indicate he was gay - so I said:
'Well, that's becuase you're a fag, right?' in a merry and jocular innocence. The bloke felt attacked and questioned 'in what way' I meant that usage - and then proceeded to explain the type of persecution he had suffered as a result of his homosexuality. I regretted even mentioning his sexual persuasion - the information about which he had so readily offered, considering my drunken inarticulateness. In future, I will be more careful and hopefully less plastered than on that occasion.
Its Kaffir
Its EXTREMELY offensive.
Always.
To everybody in South Africa - black or white.
All - please take heed and don't use it - it's worse than the n- word for African Americans. -stales
Maybeso stales, but which one did you not spell out?
Milum
I thought that the spelt out word was sufficiently well explained to give my post balance. There was no need to introduce the other word in its entirety.
I'm sorry if you feel I could have done it better...
stales
there is a place in NE england ( i can never remember wether its Darlington or Hartlepool) wher sometime in the late 1700's a french ship was wrecked off the coast , one survivor was washed up on the shore, a monkey in full French uniform. It was obviously the captains pet or something. the locals however having never seen a foreigner decided the monkey was a frenchman and hung it !!!! to this day other residents of the north east refer to Hartlepool people ( for i think it was they) as "monkey hangers". the locals do not seem too upset by this, the mascot for the local football team is called "H'angus the Monkey" !!!
the Duncster
Well, the French get called Frogs, and apparently (or so we were taught at school) they retaliate by calling us 'les roast beefs' (spelling forgotten - sorry!).
For me a Scouser would be a Liverpudlian and then there's Geordies from Newcastle. I had a narrow escape though - I was born just inside Cambridgeshire. Had it been on the Lincolnshire side I would have been a Lincolnshire Yellowbelly - something to do with indigenous frogs!
Bean
Are newfs the dog of choice in Newfoundland?
You may be interested to know that Malamutes (sp?) are very popular here in Perth. I feel sorry for the poor buggers in summer - what with their incredibly efficient triple coat and all. They simply pant the summer away.
I saw a Jaws-esque movie a few years ago about a giant squid terrorising people in Labrador. (Believe it or not, it was filmed in and around Sydney!!!) Besides this irony, I thought it was hilarious because all the "locals" roared around in pickups - replete with Labrador dogs in the back. Having owned numerous labs, my impression was that they are axcellent hearth rug warmers, doubling as a detection system for a perpetually empty stomach. "Tough guy" working dogs - NOT! So, just how accurate was the film in its depiction of labs?
stales
it's worse than the n- word for African Americans.A recently-published book is devoted entirely to tracing that single n-word -- which is the book's title. The author is a graduate of Princeton College and Yale Law School, a former Rhodes Scholar and currently on faculty at harvard Law School -- and is black. I've not had a chance to read the book thoroughly, but it appears both fascinating and profoundly disturbing.
The idea of the book first emerged when author Randall Kennedy searched the Lexis/Nexis database and found the slur in 4,219 reported court decisions. ("Honky" was second, with 286.)
[Note: in general, the court is using that word in quoting nasty remarks, by a party, that led to the lawsuit.]Review at
http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?isbn=0375421726
And this Kiwi has already been called a Pig Islander by the Mainlander in Blighty.Well, you ARE one!
'les roast beefs' (spelling forgotten - sorry!).
Ah, oui, les rosbifs, e.g. in the slangy thrillers by Frédéric Dard alias San Antonio.
That P.C. nonsense with words annoys me. I mean, if you choose to start a discussion on the word (which stales did not), you should have the guts to say what it is you're referring to. I once saw a whole interview with a lady on CNN who worked to help African women who were forced to undergo what she glossed over as 'gen'mulation' (genital mutilation). She could not bring herself to utter that against which she fought.
Some years ago an American girl told me about a bar fight that broke out when one Australian 'pulled out the n-word'. With no idea that the fight was with black American marines, I was at a loss to fill in the blank. 'You know' breathed this pint-sized white girl. 'Oh, right: nigger' I replied. 'Yes' she squirmed back. I wonder if she would have ventured to purchase the book to the word?
I really enjoy hip-hop music and have had many friends over the years who have chosen to call themselves 'nigga'. The kind of school I went to in Bonn, kids jokingly called African kids this, and other terms were used in reverse. We were all a mixed bag (ca. 80 nations) and words like 'Kaffir' were used around the South Africans, just as 'Kraut' and 'Kartoffel' were around Germans.
I understand that the racial slurs have a far more profound legacy in America, which is sad - I guess some scars can't be erased.
Are newfs the dog of choice in Newfoundland?Well, they're not dogs for everyone, because they're BIG. BIG BIG BIG. So if you don't like big dogs it's not a good idea. I see a lot more Labs around but I don't know much about their personalities. (We are, after all, a cat family.)
As for the trucks/Labs thing, I get the impression that a lot of coastal Labrador towns are inaccessible by road. So why on earth you would own a truck in such a place is beyond me. But people do, because I know that gas (along with everything else) is brought in by coastal boat for use in those places. Apparently some towns, who were recently connected by gravel road to other towns, were debating whether or not to institute snow-clearing in the winter. Previously, there was not much point, since everyone gets around by snowmobile in the wintertime there. Now that there was a road, people wanted to use their cars in the winter, too.
The only definite thing I can say is that some guy in Labrador made the news last fall because his truck was attacked by a rabid wolf. Now THAT is a typical Newfoundland story. Weird but true, and always newsworthy!
The only Labrador dog I've spent any time with was my cousins' dog, and they got him when they lived in - wait for it - Perth, Australia!
Are newfs the dog of choice in Newfoundland?Sure as shootin' are the dog of choice in one corner of Michigan. Hi there, Jeff!
Sure as shootin' are the dog of choice in one corner of Michigan. Hi there, Jeff!
[channeling Jeff] Woof! Woof! [wagging-tail-and-snuffling-nose e] [/Jeff]
Why I preview my posts:
At first, I wrote:
[channeling Jeff] Woof! Woof! [/Jeff] [wagging-tail-and-snuffling-nose e]
But then I realized that closing the Jeff function before the emoticon would make me be the one who was wagging my tail and snuffling my nose. Cute effect with Jeff; very not-so-cute with me....
Re Newfoundlans : they're not dogs for everyone, because they're BIG. BIG BIG BIG. So if you don't like big dogs it's not a good idea. I see a lot more Labs around but I don't know much about their personalities. True, Newfs are BIG, they eat a lot, vets charge more to board them and they slobber. You can always tell a newf owner because they carry a rag in their pocket!
Labs, once out of puppyhood (when they are high energy) turn into really laid back couch pooches. In general they have few things on their minds : FOOD, catching the ball, getting into any water available,sleep.
Two pretty good links:
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/newf.htmlhttp://www.canismajor.com/dog/labrador.html
The best description of the character of the Newfoundland dog is the epitaph written by Lord Byron inscribed on the grave of his Newfoundland called Boatswain (Bo'sn):
Near this spot
are deposited the remains of one
who possessed beauty without vanity
strength without insolence
courage without ferocity
and all the virtues of man without his vices.
This praise which would be
unmeaning flattery
if inscribed over human ashes
is but a just tribute to the memory of
Boatswain, a dog
who was born at Newfoundland, May 1803,
and died at Newstead Abbey,
November 18, 1808.
Later: Searched for a photo of the monument at Newstead Abbey which has a life size statue of the Newfoundland atop it. No luck. If you find one please post?
Cute effect with Jeff; very not-so-cute with me....Wasn't
She Stoops To Conquer mentioned in another thread recently?
Near this spot
are deposited the remains of one
who possessed beauty without vanity
strength without insolence
courage without ferocity
and all the virtues of man without his vices.
This praise which would be
unmeaning flattery
if inscribed over human ashes
is but a just tribute to the memory of
Boatswain, a dog
who was born at Newfoundland, May 1803,
and died at Newstead Abbey,
November 18, 1808.And in fact could be the epitaph of most dogs, I think!
wagging my tail and snuffling my noseWell,
I thought you looked pretty cute, wagging away, Sparteye!
b-youth [name post-edited] says, That P.C. nonsense with words annoys me. I mean, if you choose to start a discussion on the word (which stales did not), you should have the guts to say what it is you're referring to.
Sorry to have troubled you, b-youth. As it happens I agree with you, but who am I to impose my views on those whose ears might be more sensitive?
> who am I to impose my views on those whose ears might be more sensitive?
You're right Ken, leave that sort of recklessness up to others.
BTW, I'm not generally called 'BYB'; BobYoungBalt might, in his esteem and wisdom, be rather annoyed to be tarred with the same brush as a young snot-nose like myself.
Oops! Sorry about that -- my mind knows you're a b'yout-iful person, but my typing fingers are often wayward!
In reply to:
BTW, I'm not generally called 'BYB'...
BY, as a former young snot-nose myself, I welcome your views; we need the perspective of some younger members. Of course, you will find that we mellow with age, although the prospect is probably nauseating at your stage of life. Fortunately, mellowing is a fact of life, and a damn good thing too, otherwise there would be no drinkable red wine or grain spirit, and the snot-noses would all beat each other to death.
This thread having gone to the dogs, can I briefly insert a note along the lines of its original subject?
An inhabitant of the queen city of the Patapsco River drainage area is often called a Baltimoron.