As requested, here are more sample letters from my 19th century letter writer. The book was printed in 1870, and contains sample correspondence from at least as early as the 1850s. It also includes sample legal and accounting documents, and expounds the new (!) double entry bookkeeping system.

A respectable Citizen asks the hand of a Young Lady:

Dear Miss M____:

Scarcely had I the pleasure of becoming acquainted with you, when I felt the most ardent desire of being united to you for life. Should your heart be still disengaged, and you feel that you can return the affection that I entertain for you, you would make me the happiest man on earth. In thus asking for your hand, I consider it my duty to inform you of my circumstances. I have a complete establishment, and my fortune is such, that I can offer you a life free from the usual cares of existence.

I claim nothing but your amiable person; and your hand is more valuable to me, than all the riches of the world.

Please to decide my fate as soon as possible.

Your favorable answer will fill my heart with joy, for no one can love you more than

Your affectionate friend,

__________

The Lady consents:

Dear Sir:

Your kind letter has confirmed what I have long supposed, from your attentive conduct towards me. I think that I have never given you cause to doubt my affection for you, and if such should have been the case involuntarily, I ask your pardon;, and reckon upon it with the greater confidence, as I can assure you of my warmest gratitude for the affection which you entertain for me. I have always enjoyed the purest pleasure in your society, and shall be happy to cement our relation by nearer and dearer ties, whilst I give you the solemn promise, next to God and to my parents, to look upon you as the sole confident of my heart, the only participator of my joys and sorrows.

I have concealed nothing from my parents; I have read your letter to them; they approve of our union, and leave all to myself. I have decided in your favor, and accept of your heart, anticipating a happy future, for which I find a guarantee in the excellent qualities of your character. I am proud of the love of the man who is esteemed by every body for his rare merit. But esteem is not all I feel for you, it is the purest and most fervent affection, that has made your society so indispensable to me, and has centered all my joys in the sphere of your actions. May I never want opportunities to prove how tenderly I am devoted to you.

Your ever faithful,

++++++++

There are others, but this post is long. I shall offer them another day.

Ohhhh, S-I-G-H ! That is SO beautiful! Oh, I was born into the wrong century, I think. Swoon! Thank you, my friend.

jackie, if you enjoy that sort of stuff, you might want to pick up a copy of Anita Shreve's "Fortune's Rocks". the setting is the shores of New Hampshire at the turn of the century, the theme is reminiscent of Fitzgerald's _Tender is the Night_, the imagery is stunning and her command of language is masterfully compelling. just a warning, though: it's difficult to put down, as i discovered last night/this morning *YAWN*.


~B

I dunno, Jackie. You may be more of a hopeless romantic than I am. I suspect that all that high-flown wordy stuff was like Victorian decorations: much frou-frou to hide something which can't stand alone. I imagine something like the following going through the minds of the writers whilst they were composing these epistles:

HE: Well honey, I've run around so much and had the clap so often I can't get any decent woman to marry me, and I need an heir, so you'll do. I know you're a bit long in the tooth and decidedly plain, but you'll do, and I dare say you won't be as prissy about a good toss in the hay as those upper-class twats. You won't cost me anything in the way of settlements, and look what I'll save by cutting down on the sporting gels.

SHE: Ugh, you fat disgusting swine! If it weren't that I can't bear drudging away any longer as governess to these little cannibals and their filthy parents, I wouldn't touch you with a bargepole. But anything to have place of my own and not have to slave away all the time with the servants sniggering at me behind my back. What a woman has to put up with in this world!

Without prejudice to Jackie:

I don't know about all that, bobby, but that exchange of letters might have put a Vicky flourish on a plain accounting. Business is business, but why call it that?

Jackie,

Where you find love, who could doubt it?

IP

. I imagine something like the following going through the minds of the writers whilst they were composing these epistles:

CYNIC!!

Like Jackie, I was moved by the letters, while recognising the possibility that your "translation" may be valid. It is at least as likely that your jaundiced interpretation is utterly wrong, and the hopeful romantic in me chooses to think so.

I dunno, Jackie. You may be more of a hopeless romantic than I am.

Bob!! That was terrible! Yuck! Now I'll never marry you!
That was worse than, "Yeah, let's get it on, Bay-bee!"

Well, Jackie, my best regards to you and Max, as one romantic to others. Maybe I overstated my case, but I still have to stand by the basic proposition. Romantic I may be, but I can't get teary-eyed over what is, by its own admission, a piece of boilerplate.

With regard to the beginning love letters. I am assuming that each had a lawyer to write and/or review a marriage contract. If a pompous man is a stuffed shirt, what is the female counterpart?
I do endorse Ben Franklin's remark that before marriage a man should have his eyes wide open, and thereafter keep them half shut. Too many lovers do it vice/versa.

Despite what others have said, (I won't name names). I thought the letters were lovely. Sort of like poetry. Perhaps a bit wordy, but I think that adds to the charm.

A man's his purse, but who says leather's not romantic?

stuffed shirt - I feel a side thread coming on about clothes used to describe people.

Obviously blue collar, white collar. Any others? (wet blanket - stretching the category slightly)

In UK we have the expression "big girl's blouse" as in "That new striker (in the soccer team) is nothing but a big girl's blouse!" meaning a useless wimp.


Rod Ward

Mark Twain wrote a really funny parody of Victorian verbiage which I found in a compilation of his more salacious works titled "Letters from the Earth." It gave all the elaborate forms of the address to be used when asking permission to rescue a person from a fire. So, even at the time, some people realized the extreme nature of this stuff.

That said, it's amazing how much time you have to spend on things when there's no tv, and it's a certain kind of luxury to have such an abundance of words.

If a pompous man is a stuffed shirt, what is the female counterpart?

That's really an interesting question. I can't think of any counterpart, though not for lack of need. In the NYC art world, I've heard the imperious, cooly beautiful women who sit at the front desks at art galleries described as "vestial virgins." Of course, they might be men, also. Another clothing word that comes close, but is a little off the mark is "straight-laced." (Odd coincidence that the masculine refers to plumping the torso, and the feminine to cinching it...)

and blue stocking of course

If a pompous man is a stuffed shirt, what is the female counterpart?

A stuffed shirt.

This is Binky, wishing you a pleasant from the rings of Saturn, signing off.

The fields of bookkeeping and accounting have shifted in recent years from predominately male to predominately female, and are now known as "pink collar" occupations.


Still, GO GREEN! [Must post one Spartan-related message a day, until they are done.]

In reply to:

---

another clothing word ... is 'straight-laced'

---

Actually, it isn't. You have fallen into a homophone trap. The word is "strait-laced".
There is also "strait-jacket" with similar meaning, often misspelled 'straight-jacket."

You have fallen into a homophone trap. The word is "strait-laced".
There is also "strait-jacket" with similar meaning, often misspelled 'straight-jacket."

No kidding! But of course. So I guess strait-laced isn't a suitable feminine of "stuffed shirt" at all. Leaving us in dire straits.......

how about "wears the pants [in the family]"

also "dressed to kill", though that describes more of a temporary condition than a true personality trait.

> I imagine something like the following going through the minds of the writers whilst they were composing these epistles:

I thought this was brilliant.

vestial virgins

Now, I could believe vestal virgins. I might even be able to accept vestigal virgins, although I'd love to see the phrase defined. And if they were vestiary virgins, I guess that would mean that the local clergy had help from youngish woman in putting on his/her robes.

But I believe that BlanchPatch has coined a new word. Congratulations and all that, but please let us in on the secret of what it means!

Maybe they were vestibule virgins? While we're at it, how does one retain vestigial virginity?

Today there are both venal and venial virgins.

As promised (to the romantics) or threatened (to the cynics), here are more letters of love.

Confession of love to a Young Lady, whom the writer has only seen a few times

Dear Miss _______:

You will be astonished that a man who has only had the happiness of meeting you a couple of times, should take the liberty of addressing you; but it is impossible for me to resist the impulse. Should you ask what I wish -- no, you know it already, the first glance of my eye, the tone of the first word which I addressed to you, must have revealed it. I love you, dear Emily! Love you with all the fervor of a first affection, and therefore cannot bear to see you depart from here, without having confessed the sentiments which I have entertained for you, and heard from your mouth the sentence, which will make me the happiest or most miserable being upon this earth. In dread uncertainty, I wait the moment which will bring me your decision. Sometimes, when I think of your artless winning ways, my heart fills with hope; sometimes, fear lays her cold hand upon me, when I think how small are my claims to so superior a being as you! But, I have no choice; I cannot live without knowing if I may hope to win your love, and to call you mine. Do not leave me long to endure this miserable state between hope and dispair, between life and death!

Yours, forever,

+++++++++++++

Asking a Father for the hand of his daughter

Honored Sir:

Instead of the business letters which you receive from me from time to time, I send you to-day an epistle, the contents of which may not astonish you a little. I hereby take the liberty of asking you, if the hand and heart of your daughter Augusta, are still disengaged, and if you would approve of me as a son-in-law, if I should succeed in gaining the affections of your amiable daughter. No doubt you will wonder at this question, but I saw Miss A. in H______, about eight weeks ago, and formed a sincere affection for her. Of course, I wish it returned, and should have come to you immediately to sue for the affection of your Augusta, but was prevented week after week by unavoidable business. Even now, difficulties almost insurmountable prevent my travelling, and a protracted absence from my business, and therefore I have taken the liberty of asking you, whether there is any hope to see my wishes crowned with success.

The kindness which you have always evinced for me, makes me rely upon an early answer.

Trusting that under all circumstances you will preserve for me your friendship,

I remain,

Your obedient servant

Oh, the cynics aren't feeling threatened. I mean, would you feel threatened if the opposing lawyer provided you with fresh information with which you could win your case?

And I do feel that these fresh effusions of Victorian repressed and anal-retentive expression do tend to prove the cynics' point. Can you imagine the mismatches which must have occurred because of the remote and flowery outpourings of courtly love they encapsulated?

For example, Sometimes, when I think of your artless winning ways, my heart fills with hope; sometimes, fear lays her cold hand upon me, when I think how small are my claims to so superior a being as you! For pity's sake? How many inexperienced and often ill-educated girls, when faced with evidence of the fact that their putative lover could actually read and write like this, fell head over heels for the words rather than the man behind them?

It makes me wonder whether, if divorce had been as freely available and mostly free of social stigma as it is today, most of these marriages wouldn't have just floated like a lead balloon ...



Ah, but it's all jolly good fun, eh!

Can you imagine the mismatches which must have occurred because of the remote and flowery outpourings of courtly love they encapsulated?

Jane Austen has already imagined them for us, even if hers were somewhat pre-Victorian.

And she's provided us with the cynic's eye view of what lay behind the flowery epistles. See the Revd. Collins's attempts.

Bingley

i was surprised at the use of the word "artless" in this context, and had TLIU in order to learn of its possibilities as a complimentary adjective (Having or displaying no guile, cunning, or deceit; Free of artificiality; natural: artless charm.) i was further surprised to find that, at least according to atomica, the definition that i've heretofore ascribed to it (Lacking art, knowledge, or skill; uncultured and ignorant.
Poorly made or done; crude.) is listed as a *secondary* meaning.

did we not recently have a discussion about words which can mean their own opposite? i should think this example would fall squarely into that category.

~b

I was surprised at the use of the word "artless" in this context, and had TLIU in order to learn of its possibilities as a complimentary adjective (Having or displaying no guile, cunning, or deceit; Free of artificiality; natural: artless charm.) i was further surprised to find that, at least according to atomica, the definition that i've heretofore ascribed to it (Lacking art, knowledge, or skill; uncultured and ignorant. Poorly made or done; crude.) is listed as a *secondary* meaning.

I like this one! What do you think about this? The opposite senses of 'artless' derive from the two senses of a single definition summed up this way: artless--without aritifice, whether disemblance/facade or [what's a better word for "cultivation?"]. Do you think you've come up with yet another class of polysemic words, Bridge?

"Artless" means "without artifice", not "without art". Since the character that wrote the letter admits that he doesn't know much about the object of his affections, the use of the word is nothing but gross flattery - how would he know that she was artless?

[Edit] And B-2, if I were to marry someone on the strength of a well-written love letter, AND the marriage succeeded, I would be applauding the operation of pure chance in my favour!

] And B-2, if I were to marry someone on the strength of a well-written love letter, AND the marriage succeeded, I would be applauding the operation of pure chance in my favour!

perhaps i should rephrase myself. i wasn't suggesting that a relationship could or should be predicated upon a single well-written love letter; you are discounting the fact that the two persons in question had (am i incorrectly presuming that this was a mutual attraction?) already established a rapport. i'm commenting more on the fact that--having developed an in-person affection for each other--societal tradition caused them to take the relationship first to an intellectual level before proceeding with social interaction.

and david [what's a better word for "cultivation?"]: perhaps "refinement"?

~b

Since the character that wrote the letter admits that he doesn't know much about the object of his affections, the use of the word is nothing but gross flattery - how would he know that she was artless?

And that is the letter writer's art -- to purchase it, the sender's.

Having developed an in-person affection for each other--societal tradition caused them to take the relationship first to an intellectual level before proceeding with social interaction.

I think that's a good point, Bridge. Truly. Still, these letters look more like florid term sheets than expressions of other compatibilities.

and david [what's a better word for "cultivation?"]: perhaps "refinement"?

It wasn't the one on the tip of my, um, tongue, but it is no doubt better than the one that was hanging from my uvula.

So I guess strait-laced isn't a suitable feminine of "stuffed shirt" at all. Leaving us in dire straits..

On the oblique : in Victorian times women wore corsets with stays. The corsets were tightly laced up the back. So were the Vics strait laced (tightly confined) or straight laced to keep their spine stiffened?
Pondering this I find myself in need of a stiffiner!
wow

blue]You may be more of a hopeless romantic than I am.

The term, "hopeless romantic" is oxymoronic! Romantics are by nature hopeful, if a bit goofy.

Another oxymoron is "near miss." That really grates on me. But then, in this case, the suitor was attempting to convert a near miss into a conjoined Mrs!

"stuffed shirt"

Isn't a female with a stuffed shirt wearing a padded bra?

Another oxymoron is "near miss."

If you think that, you have never seen me play darts! A near miss is a rare event for me, the phrase "missed by miles" is much more apt.
I truly do not think that "near miss" is either oxymoronic or tautological, as it is easily possible to miss by a degree other than "near". If I remember correctly, the aviation industry has an exact definition of "near miss", that whenever planes come within X feet of each other, it is defined as a "near miss".

If I remember correctly, the aviation industry has an exact definition of "near miss", that whenever planes come
within X feet of each other, it is defined as a "near miss".

Although I'm not in the aviation industry (used to have a private pilot's license, but nothing more) I suspect that the term, "near miss" was coined by a moronic - whether oxy or otherwise - journalist. If one comes near to missing, one has barely hit, according to my quite possibly warped way of being logical.

BTW, is the opposite of tautology limpology? That's a logical "near miss," I think!

If you think that, you have never seen me play darts! A near miss is a rare event for me, the phrase "missed by miles" is
much more apt.

Well, Max, that's why I play darts indoors: I'm bound to hit one of the four walls. I also play a wicked game of fiveis. It's only tennis when the ball goes back where it came from!