this is a story about words and the way they're used in a public forum, and it's a story that doesn't seem to be going away.

should Don Imus be fired?

-joe (or forced to resign) friday

My instant reaction: Pathetic sensationalist journalism. The tee-shirts will be out soon. If people can't see it for what it really is then in the immortal words of Mr T, I pity the fool.

Olly, is Imus known in Zild or was this the first you'd heard of him?

I dunno, tsuwm, there's such a fine damn line between free speech and hate speech... guess that's why the only radio I listen to, pretty much, is NPR.

(is this bordering on the political??)

This is the first I have heard of Imus. There was a similar situation here several years ago with a prominent broadcaster. Some thought nothing of it, some took it to extremes. I won't elucidate but suffice it to say that it was stretched from here to there and ended up being quite funny.

>(is this bordering on the political??)

maybe, but Imus' act is mostly old curmudgeon who insults everyone.

I noticed Howard Stern's reaction was that Imus should have said to his critics: "ƒµ©k you, it's a joke."

sure its a joke.

Wasn't it TEd who said, all jokes have hurt as a basis?
(except of course, pun!)

Imas made hurtful remarks. they were so hurtful, no one could see the humor.

he pandered to the stereotype of 'beauty' (ie light skin, fair, smooth hair, dainty (ie, not athetic)--oh and let's not forget, 'proper' (ie pure--the classic madonna vs harlot dicotomy of women)

his remarks were sexist and racist. and to some degree he got in trouble for saying them because he is white--some words are racist when used by whites (to talk about blacks) but not when used by blacks to talk about other blacks!

rappers use the word 'ho' to describe women all the time--

but that's OK, but it's not OK for white men to call black women ho's (it's tolerated if they are talking about white women)

it's politicalization of language.

it's been around.
boy (ok term for a child under ten, wrong if used to describe a adult man, racist if used to describe a black over the age of 10)

Young lady (ok for girl (preteen) demeaning, for a teen, insulting and sexist used by a man to an adult woman)

words, have meanings--varieties of meanings.

Nappy haired is not a compliment-- the well established western standard of beauty is for smooth hair--that could be described at racist, but its hard to tell (cleopatra used clay to smooth and straighten her hair.. if straight smooth hair is a 'beauty' feature, it is one that predates european standards of beauty!--curly hair (curly to the point of being nappy) has rarely been considered a beauty feature (in us fair shinned and hair folks, its called "lamb wool' hair, and not considerered a blessing either!)
(a sure sign is clowns and other charactures often have curly, curly hair)
he used a lot of words with negative meanings to describe young women who did nothing but excell. it was mean spirited, and rude.
(but then like the AsP, i don't listen to this 'shock jockey' and my radio listening is pretty much QXR (classic music) and NPR.

the fact is, on the basketball court these women did look tough.
sculpted, athletic bodies; many tattoos; corn rows.

in their public appearances since the Imus affair, they have softened the look, wearing warmups to cover the tats and muscles, and "normal" hair.

and 'tough' =amoral?

when male athletes look tough it is good,
when female althetes look tough, they are also presumed to be promiscuous?

Olly nailed it. The flake press has again produced a four-alarm fire from a struck match. One of the 'victims' was put on the air whining about being "scarred for life". In the immortal word[s] of Mr Weatherby, Egad! It must be a seriously weak mind that can be so horribly damaged by so little. GET OVER IT!

Disclaimer: Any snippiness prompted by drift into politics on the wrong bulletin board may be directed to note the use of special phrase constructions [merely as an exercise] in the preceding rant.

Well, I'd never heard of this Imus guy. I guess my feelings about it would vary a bit, depending on the context. Is he a sportscaster, as in reporting the game plays to his listeners? In which case, he should NEVER have made a comment like that. If he's just a DJ, esp. one who specializes in saying things for "shock value", then I can somewhat better understand why he might say that. However, I also think he should have kept in mind that there are ways to "shock" without being politically incorrect in such a high-profile, personalized way.
It is my understanding that nappy-headed a.) is usually applied only to black people, and b.) means a condition where it is obvious that the hair has not had any care in a long time; for ex. it might have accumulated lint in it. So I don't think the term would apply to someone with well-kept cornrows, or any hair that is well-styled--er, that shows that at least some care has been taken-- and not obviously dirty.

here's all kinds of video for those wot's interested.

GET OVER IT!

Oh, dear, oh, my. Some people get all bent out of shape by a misplaced apostrophe or a (supposedly) incorrectly verbed noun in medias back formation. Some of us could care [sic] less. I guess life on Earth will continue no matter what. It's all a bit like the frat boys in that Borat movie trying to sue for being made to look ridiculous. Sigh!

Watch it, olly, it wasn't Mister Tee who pitied the fool, it was Bobby "Blue" Bland...remember?

Bobby "Blue" Bland -- I Pity The Fool

I pity the fool, I pity the fool, I pity the fool,
I pity the fool that falls in love with you,
and expects you to be true, I pity the fool
Look at the people,
I know you wonder what they're doing
They're just standing there,
watching you make a fool out of me
Look at me people
I know you wonder what they're doing
They're just standing there,
watching you make a fool out of me
I pity the fool that falls in love with you
I pity the fool, I pity the fool who falls in love with you
You'll break his heart one day then you'll laugh and walk away
I pity the fool.
____________________________________

Apologize, olly.

That's what Imus in the morning and in the afternoon has been doing since he committed a silly social indiscretion and was thrown off the out-of-whack social bus. Big deal.

Whatcha want? Government intervention into social policing?


___

Yes, you're right we are all part of the problem. It's a bit like quantum physics. By watching an event we make the event happen.

Government intervention into social policing?
Already a fact of life.

Bobby 'blue' Bland
Strange, I read the lyrics but it was mr Tee's voice I could hear singing the song.

"Alas, poor fool! why do I pity him" -
_Two Gentlemen of Verona_ IV:iv - Shakespeare

Wups--I completely forgot about the hos part when I made my above post. No, a person shouldn't be that insulting.

No, but even with Jackson/Sharpton napalm dumped in, none should be so thin-skinned about rude comments from a radio hack to be "scarred for life" and require "a healing process". One would think some derogatory Mohammad cartoons had been drawn.

One would also think that being a white male (as I assume you are, Aramis) one doesn't know much about being a young black woman. And I'm really gonna try to stop here, because this isn't *that kind of forum.

Imus is coming back. He's agreed to do a co-host talk show with Andrew Young, to be called the Imus and Andy Show.

Really TEd, well let me tell you about the Andrew Young and Milo show.

In the late late fifties I rabble roused a hundred students from Phillips High School as I spoke from the Jefferson County courthouse steps and railed against the wanton mixing of the two races.

Now the Andrew and Milo show (remix 1998).

Lollie (Gary Barnes'wife) and I were waiting to get on a plane to Miami as the ticket lady argued with Andrew Young. His luggage was 20 lbs over the limit and he was was going to Africa to bring peace to mankind.

People boarding behind him were getting mad so I offered (since I only had a tennis racket) to carry Andrew's oversized luggage onto the plane.

I did. And he mumbled "thank you" and by carring Andrew Young's luggage onto that plane I became assuaged of all of my transgressions.

I am wonderful.

I spoke from the Jefferson County courthouse steps and railed against the wanton mixing of the two races.

Just wondering if you were arguing against miscegenation or desegregation?

I wasn't going to add anything to this thread (and some will dispute whether I'm adding anything even now), but I'm in a what-the-heck kind of mood this morning.

A) I agree what Imus did was wrong.

B) he should not be fired over it - a reprimand is sufficient, given that the nature of his job is (apparently) to be offensive. (I've taking this from other posts and comments. I don't listen to the man. I dislike everybody, and as an adult, I don't need anybody to do it for me)

C) *ANYBODY* who is traumatized by an insult, especially one as broad as this one was, has a lot of growing up to do. If you don't like it, talk to the person - or his superiors - in private. Whining and crying in public over hurt feelings is for 4-year-olds in supermarket aisles.

aisles - now, there's a word that just looks wrong, no matter how many times you type it.

Those were the days of Freudian misconceptions; miscegenation was thought to be the point of court-ordered desegregation. But don't read anything into my use of the word "wanton". As you know the word has multiple meanings. Right?

But don't read anything into my use of the word "wanton". As you know the word has multiple meanings. Right?

yes, and you must mean this one: Marked by unprovoked, gratuitous maliciousness; capricious and unjust

-joe (wanton misreadings R' us) friday

But don't read anything into my use of the word "wanton". As you know the word has multiple meanings. Right?

Sure. It can mean all sorts of things, which is why your statement was ambiguous, but you knew that, and you still haven't answered the question, though I'll assume you were simply, and not freudianally, opposed to desegregation. So, when and why the change of heart? Or do you yearn yet for the days of separate water fountains?

What, zmjezhd, are you trying to race bait the themilum?

Do you yearn for the days before you became bitter about life?

What, zmjezhd, are you trying to race bait the themilum?

Who, me? Perish the thought. I was trying to understand what you wrote. If you're going to take offense, let's just drop the matter.

Do you yearn for the days before you became bitter about life?

I'm pretty happy with the decriminalization of miscegenation and desegregation in the South and the North. I'm also pretty much happy with life. You're the one who brought this matter up. You seemed in a nostalgic mood. I officially apologize to you, Milo, and the Board, for any offense. Take care.

And I hope that you will accept my apology to you, zmjezhd.

I know myself. I have never hated any man. And I never will.

And I must say: Please tender thy resignation, zmjezhd. We cannot accept such an offensive poster in our WBC Boards.

Please tender thy resignation, zmjezhd. We cannot accept such an offensive poster in our WBC Boards.

Sorry, Curuinor, but I won't be resigning. It's interesting that in some languages, it is offensive to speak to a person you don't know very well using the 2nd personal familiar (as thou used to be in English). If you really can't stand my posts, you might want to review the "ignore this user" feature of the board's software.

Don Imus has been forced to tender his resignation. I am trying to force you to tender your resignation. Capisce?

I am trying to force you to tender your resignation. Capisce?

No, I don't, because I don't work for you. Don Imus was fired by his employer.

hey curuinor, who died and make you god?(or should that be godfather?) why should zmj resign? on your say so? ha!

you'll need to come up with a better reason. nuncle zjm (I am, here, taking liberites, since i am not really close enough to him to address him so familiarly, but...) is welcome (as are you!) to post here as often as he wants! i think you are, if not alone, in a minority, with a call for him to resign.

Maybe it's just me, but would the choice of an appropriate smiley here have caused you not be taken literally, Curuinor?

And what's a WBC Board?

The Wordsmith Broadcasting Corporation Boards, of course.

And I am anathema to smilies. Oh well.

And I am anathema to smilies. Oh well.

Anathema is a goodly noun from the Greek, via Latin, ultimately related to a whole slew of words descended from PIE *dhē- 'to set, put', some of my favorites of which are: fact, doom, deed, theorem, salmagundi, etc.

From your link, jmz: 1. Suffixed form *dhē-ti-, “thing laid down or done, law, deed.” deed; indeed, .... Not deity?

>And I am anathema to smilies.

you are cursed, reviled, loathed to smilies?!
oh well.

-joe (portentous) friday

Not deity?

No, Latin deus (Juppiter, i.e., Jove father), Greek Zeus, is from PIE *dyeu- 'to shine; god'. PIE *dh > Latin f, Greek th, but *dy > Latin d, (j), Greek z.

I am an object of great revilement to smilies. In addition, the feeling is mutual.

What about the little stamp at school for doing your homework?

Heaven forsooth that one should have a substitute for body language or tone of voice!

Was hoping that bit of harshness was intended as humour. If so, it was not that obvious.

Just to clarify (evidently needed): This was a reply to Anna but was about the Curinor post #167610 - Mon Apr 16 2007 11:24 PM.

Well, read the post just before yours. The smileys here are not the best of what I've seen, but they have to make do.

I often have to add sound effects to my statements in real life, because I am so easily (apparently) mis-understood.

it's true.

You could try the old Soviet gesture of banging a shoe on the table. That is usually pretty clear and is probably convenient (in your case).

But it should not be the sole remedy.

And hard to do in an on-line context without smileys.

Using smilies is like going to the dentist. It's not pleasant, but it's useful. As they remind me of the dentist I dislike the ones with the teeth most of all. -

Really liked the old ones better. Perhaps a shoe-banging one could be added.

..... or a head-banging one (duh!).

As close as I could come to head banging smilies
.I .. .z ...I ...z
... ..

Check out this website for smilies.