do you remember the word limns?
it's a word that has fallen out of general use.. it once used to be common enough, (it was used in woman's magazines like woman's day--with generally features a vocabulary of a 6th grader!(circa 1970)) but now, its hardly ever seen in general use.
can you think of other words that have fallen out of fashion?
not to stretch a point; but, pundigrion.
How 'bout skulk? Don't hear or read that much, any more, but wasn't it used a lot in, I think, Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys mysteries, for ex.?
Great! i was reading a bunch of newsletters (dating from the 1970's) and stumbled across limn's.. i remembered it.
nancy drew had old words even in the 1950's like "roadster" (for her car!)
and nowdays, no one opens their clutch, to get there pancake and to touch up their foundation..
(they open their purse or bag, and add more blusher or check their base (makeup) Rouge (really a word that was before my time.. is long gone too..
my mother used a bit of VO5 hair pommaide.(is that spelled right?) now my daughter uses "product" sometimes lots of product, sometimes almost none.. (could be gel, or mouse, or anti frizz serum, or 'shiners' or polishers.. but VO5?
never!)
I was hoping this would come up. Or, not so much words falling out of fashion, but the rich patina of their original meaning being worn off.
I am frequently disappointed to re-look up words in modern dictionaries whose definitions I remember reading in my father's dictionary, only to find that the definition I remembered is no longer the given one.
A few examples.
"Malaise". I recall this meaning something like, "an uneasy, ill-defined feeling, especially due to incipient illness." Today most dictionaries define it as simply "a general feeling of discomfort, illness, or uneasiness whose exact cause is difficult to identify" with no mention of incipient illness, which is sad, I think, because it adds such a potent touch of hypochondria to the word.
The verb of "drab." I can recall this word's simple definition in my old dictionary, verbatim: "to consort with whores." My Oxford Concise doesn't give even list a verb form for "drab".
Then there's "conviviality" whose definition of "a lively atmosphere" I distinctly recall included a reference to "food and drink". The word "conviviality" was always accompanied for me by a sound of knives and forks clanking on plates and clanking glasses and laughter; always, but now the banquet hall is deserted, and the definition reads simply, "friendly, lively, and enjoyable."
And there are many, many more.
Quote:
"Malaise". I recall this meaning something like, "an uneasy, ill-defined feeling, especially due to incipient illness." Today most dictionaries define it as simply "a general feeling of discomfort, illness, or uneasiness whose exact cause is difficult to identify" with no mention of incipient illness, which is sad, I think, because it adds such a potent touch of hypochondria to the word.
I think the word has been use metaphorically so often lately that limiting its cause to incipient illness in a dictionary, except perhaps in a secondary definition, would be a disservice to the reader.
Pollution (the sexual kind), harrow (the equipment), gun cotton, quicksilver, quick (the living), inkhorn, windrow, and stichometry.
Helen: "Limn" is definitely of type 3
"...and nowdays, no one opens their clutch, to get their pancake and to touch up their foundation.."
At least amongst us very old males, "pancake" and "foundation" are of type 1 and still current
However Laverne, who is much smarter than I, agrees that they have dropped out but maintains "clutch" is still current though of type 2, being but a subclass of "bag", which is of course type 1
"...(they open their purse or bag, and add more blusher or check their base (makeup) Rouge (really a word that was before my time.. is long gone too.."
...while she agrees that "blusher" is current, though asserts should be "blush," and is of type 1, while it definitely replaces "rouge," which she agrees has fallen out
Pursuant to your excellent followup I have created a new category for terms such as "rouge," “pancake,” and “foundation,” common words dropping out of use: Type 1a
Jackie: "Skulk" is definitely type 2, a most excellent word
tsu: "pundigrion" not in Random unabridged. What does it mean and under what category would it fall
Hydra: I would place "malaise" and "conviviality" in type 2, though many might disagree; eg, Laverne places the latter as 3. Wouldn't you agree that "Drab" as a verb might go in new category 1c...
...or perhaps 2a
Helen: Thank you for this jolly opportunity
That unfamiliar verb 'drab' somehow recalls 'drub', which seems to only ever appear as gerund form 'drubbing' and also seems to be a cast-off.
eta: Thanks for the link. Must be pretty obscure to get less than a half-dozen hits
Readily admit to laziness. But which category
>But which category
daleh, I have to say that I think your three categories are waaay too simplistic. for example, I'd have to break "snooty" into: abstruse, absurd, arcane, ambiguous, amphigoric, archaic, doubtful, enigmatic, esoteric, incomprehensible, inexplicable, inkhorn, inscrutable, jargonish, mysterious, nonce, nonsense, obsolete, occult, opaque, pedagogical, pedantic, rare, recondite, unbelievable, unclear, undefined, unfathomable, unintelligible, and vague (off the top of my head).
pundigrion, the probable forebear of pun, is merely obsolete; where used the meaning can be easily determined from context.
"A few days [we] passed at Liverpool..; and had it been quite sure that we should have found you at no inconvenient season, perhaps I might have crossed the river; in which case had there come on a storm, so as to endanger the ferry-boat, I could not have prayed to the Lord to have Mersey upon me! What a face of abomination you will make at that pundigrion!"
- Robert Southey, letter to C. W. Wynn, Esq. M.P. (1808)
-joe (snooty) friday
>I'd have to break "snooty" into: abstruse, absurd, arcane, ambiguous, amphigoric, archaic, doubtful, enigmatic, esoteric, incomprehensible, inexplicable, inkhorn, inscrutable, jargonish, mysterious, nonce, nonsense, obsolete, occult, opaque, pedagogical, pedantic, rare, recondite, unbelievable, unclear, undefined, unfathomable, unintelligible, and vague (off the top of my head).
And in alphabetical order, no less!!! That is some head.
And you thought *I* was bad!
> And you thought *I* was bad!
tsu: "daleh, I have to say that I think your three categories are waaay too simplistic"
Almost any division into three can be called simplistic. The three categories are useful in deciding whether to use a particular word. The general rule is to use 1 almost anytime, 2 when its meaning is clearer but rarely 3
Thank you for the rundown on "pundigrion". Tentatively, then, I'd guess it in cat. 2c or maybe 3c
so, dal, where do you class the neos you dig up from the UD?
An entry in common use might qualify in 1. If it had been succeeded by a slightly more obscure but nonetheless more descriptive term then it likely beliongs in 2, etc If either were in danger of dropping out of use one might add a or b
Am I not clear or should I pursue it further--thank you for the q
And where do you stick your persiflage?
That's really a good q. It's probably a 3 and I shouldn't be using it, but I like it. On another board someone used the word to describe my threads, and I liked it so I adopted it, using it to refer to myself in a couple of later threads. But great turmoil ensued when they now tore me limb from limb, threatening to ban me, for using an obscure word
But great turmoil ensued when they now tore me limb from limb, threatening to ban me, for using an obscure word
I begin to sympathize.
Quote:
Almost any division into three can be called simplistic.
What?! Everything comes in threes. Faith, hope and charity; the three billy goats gruff; the three wise men; Shirley, goodness and mercy; borders, books and musick; lawyers, guns and money. Everything.
Oh, I laughed out loud! Thanks!
Quote:
Quote:
Almost any division into three can be called simplistic.
What?! Everything comes in threes. Faith, hope and charity; the three billy goats gruff; the three wise men; Shirley, goodness and mercy; borders, books and musick; lawyers, guns and money. Everything.
"Ramans do everything in threes"
Fal: Yes you are absolutely right, it's a habit of the mind to divide into threes. When I called it simplistic, I meant in many such cases by diligent application one could with some justification add a fourth or even fifth category
Or in some cses remove one that can be shown slighty redundant, leaving only two
I intend no such attempt myself but other members are cordially invited to try
but.. but..
what about my thirty-seven (30) subcategories for snooty -- some of which have absolutely nothing to do with snootiness?!