It's just that I was taught that "Tao" should be pronounced "Dao", and, if this is correct, I wondered why the system used to transcribe Chinese into English doesn't just spell it that way.
In reply to:...but it still seems like faulty transliteration to me.
We have a tremendous problem with this in Israel - walk down almost any street and you see the name of the street spelled in Hebrew, Arabic and English, but on the street signs, the English spelling (transliteration) might be spelled at least two different ways - well, it could be a third, you see, at the beginning of the next block, if, in fact, the next block has the same street name... yes, it is true that, since we have lots of people to honor but simply not enough streets to name, sometimes one block of a street will have one name while the name changes with the beginning of the next block... this makes being a tour guide tons of fun, don't ya know! [depressed again at not having any tourists to guide emoticon]
Shoshannah
In reply to:As for the "t"/"d" thing, I'm ready to guess it's the Chinese equivalent of the Japanese "l"/"r" pronunciation issue. A hard "t" is roughly the same as a "d" within the spoken language.
We have a similar problem here in the Middle East - of course, no westerner I know can say the letter 'ayin' (present in both Hebrew & Arabic) as it's said way back in the throat.
But the most interesting sound, I think, is the one written with a 'Gh' (in transliteration) but pronounced as if it's an 'Rh' as in the name of the only Alawite (smallish sect of Islam for the uninitiated) village in Israel - way up in the north - it's the one in the area that Lebanon claims is their territory, but it became part of Israel in the 1967 war when Israel 'won' it from Syria - in what's called both the Mt. Dov and Sheba Farms area - the village is spelled (in transliteration from Arabic to English) Ghajar but pronouced Rhajar (with a slight roll on the 'r' - I would NOT recommend you try saying that three times real fast!
). The most famous person I know of with the same sound in his name - same transliteration, same pronunciation - is Boutros Boutros Ghali (pronounced Rhali with that little roll on the 'r').
Of course, the obvious question is "why don't they just write it with the 'rh' instead of with the 'gh' and the only answer I have is, I DON'T KNOW!
Now wasn't that fun?!
Shoshannah
In reply to:doesn't the pronunciation of quasi 'Rh' rather than 'Gh' largely it depend on which Arab speaking place your from, or rather which dialect you speak
Yes, of course, but it seems that the Alawites (who are largely Syrian) pronounce the Rh as do the Egyptians (as Mr. Ghali is Egyptian...).
Perhaps that's not such a great distance today, but in the past, of course, it was... and the Alawites are not as wide-spread south of that village in northern Israel as the Egyptians have been and still are - of course, it is true that ancient Canaan was a province of ancient Egypt before the Israelites arrived... and Syria, long before being a distinct political entity as it is today, was a term used to identify the entire area (as in Levant or even Middle East but not to be confused with ASSYRIA)... hence the concept of "Greater Syria"... still, I doubt that any of the ancient Egyptian 'dialect' would have remained in the ancient Syrian dialect after this long!
As well, the Arabic language spoken on the streets and in the suks of the current Arab world, is NOT the same as the Arabic of the Koran and other literary works - thus, the differences between the Arabic spoken by your Moroccan friend and your Syrian friend - though when they read the Koran or pray the standard prayers, I suspect they sound the same (perhaps with a slightly different twang here or there).
Whoops, sorry - here I go again - but it is interesting, don't ya think, to compare the ancient to the modern and the regional to the bigger picture???
Shoshannah
I couldn't even work out how to spell half those words phonetically using the poxy 26 characters we have to represent the sounds of English! )In reply to:The t/d thing is not at all like l/r in Japanese. ... In fact, it's the opposite. With l/r, the Japanese cannot distinguish between two sounds in English - they only hear one.
We have a similar situation here, to whit, linguistically, Arabs (at least in this area) cannot distinguish between p/b and in fact, cannot make the 'p' sound at all, substituting the 'b' sound. So, instead of "police" we get "bolice" and so forth.
In fact, it is interesting how that changes words historically - for instance, in the north of Israel, we have a place called "Banias" - but at this place, you can see the remains of an ancient temple to the god Pan! Over the years, instead of Pan, the Arabs would say "Ban" and so the name of the place changed from "Panias" to "Banias" which is how it is now shown on ALL maps!
The same is true of the now-Arab city of Nablus (which was the Hebrew city of Shchem in ancient times, sometimes but incorrectly pronounced She-kem). Later, the name was changed to Neapolis (under the Roman occupation) and some time later when Arabs began to settle in the region (following the Muslim conquest in 638 CE and more under the Ottoman occupation and even more after the Jews began to return - from the mid-19th century and into the early 20th century), the city began to be called Nabolis... resulting in what we have today as Nablus!
In Hebrew, we have some letters that can be read as one sound or another, such as the bet & vet or pay & fay, BUT there are specific rules on when to use which sound. For instance, the real name of Hebron is Hevron (and it is a short 'e' as well and with the accent on the last syllable) as the 'vet' comes in the middle of the world rather than at the beginning (when it would most likely be pronounced with a 'b' sound).
Shoshannah
BTW - on transliterations - though there is somewhere an 'official' way to transliterate words from Hebrew & Arabic into English, here most people seem to prefer to do it in a way that is easiest for each person - thus, the street signs can be different from one block to the next or city to city or map to map!
Just one of the things that makes life here a bit more interesting than in some places!
In reply to:...I promise I will not try to explain this ever again on this board!
Oh, Bridget, say it ain't so. I found that so illuminating.
And Faldage, your explanation of voiced/unvoiced and all was too.
Thank you all, for sharing your expertise and answering questions which have bothered me for years.
One addendum for Bridget. My implicit complaint was not about phonetic inconsistency in Chinese, but in the work of those who developed the transcription systems.