From an article about Theodore Roosevelt:
"The great adventure TR called life began in this house on East 20th Street in New Your City where he was born October 27, 1858."
I'm not sure how to translate "East 20th Street". My guess is that "East", since it is capital letter, is the name of the street, and 20 is the number of the street. Am I right? does it make any sense?
Got to say, I've never thought about that before. I suppose it *is the street name, although "East" and "West" do not appear on the street signs. You do use them, however, when addressing envelopes and packages for the mail.
The dividing line between East and West for Manhattan addresses is Fifth Avenue. West of Fifth Avenue, the addresses go up from the Avenue to the Hudson River (the western shore of the island) and east of Fifth Avenue, the addresses go up toward the East River (the eastern shore).
In conversation, some streets are referred to as West or East. For example, West Fourth Street is "West Fourth Street." On the other hand, as far as I know, West 20th Street is just "20th Street." You would add "West" with a little emphasis, or in a second statement, if you wanted to make clear which side of town you were referring to.
For your purposes, I would, as you correctly infer, treat "West" or "East" as part of the street name.
I'm gonna disagree with IP here, even though he's a Nyawker and I am not....
The name of the street is East 20th street or West 20th Street. The direction is a necessary part of the name. Here's why:
If you are going north on 5th Ave and want to go to 25 East 20th Street (
http://snipurl.com/l4v3 ), you would turn right onto East 20th Street; but there's also a 25 West 20th Street (
http://snipurl.com/l4uz ) and you would turn left from Fifth Avenue to get there.
Both those addresses have the same street number, so you cannot disregard the East and West designations.
I'm curious, though, as to why they decided to put east and west on opposite sides of 5th Avenue, rather than First Avenue. In Denver, East and West are divided by Broadway, while North and South are divided by Ellsworth. So if yu wanted to go to say the 700 Block of East Sixth Street you would go seven blocks East of Broadway and six blocks north of Ellsworth.
The situation becomes much more complicated elsewhere. Look at this map of Salt Lake City, UT
http://snipurl.com/l4vhNote that there is a W North Temple, and E North Temple, a W South Temple, and though not shown on this map, probably an E South Temple. There is also A S West Temple and an N West Temple.
But beyond that, look at W 400 N and W 400 S. They run E-W parallel to one another but 8 blocks apart. And W 400 N crosses N 400 W and W 400 S crosses both S 400 W as well as S 400 E.
And then there would be house numbers in front of the name of the street.
I wonder if the Mormons did this so anyone invading SLC would be so hopelessly lost that they would have to ask for directions, giving the defenders a great chance to take them out.
The dividing line is Fifth Avenue, because it approximates the median of the Island for much of its length. If the dividing line were First, almost everything would be West for a long way.
Well, I'm talking about how we talk, and how we sign the streets v. how the Post Office works things out. I don't know how the police call things, or other city agencies. And what you don't account for is why it's West Fourth, and just plain dumpy ole Twentieth. What I'm saying, sir, is there's names and there's names. And then, of course, there's names.
huh. i would never have considered a street direction as part of the street name, any more than I would a house (or block) number. It's all just part of an address, with the direction showing some departure from an arbitrary dividing line on the street.
the exceptions, of course, would be West Avenue (where West may have been some city father) and the like. I might live on, e.g., Aldrich Ave. S. or NE Spring St.; here the placement of the directional modifier at front or back is also quite arbitrary (and coventional).
I think that East and West are definately part of the street name(in NYC)--and since don't East and West appear on street signs? Look again (peter the Rock for a head!) the font is usually smaller, but its there!
some streets (West4th, or West 96th, are better known, and used to define a neighborhood, but 400 West 20th (chelsea city housing projects) if very different from 400 East 20th ST., Grammercy Park (a lovely neighborhood centered around NYC only private park)
(in law & order, they often have address that don't exist--like 600 East 42nd street--(which if it existed would be somewhere in the middle of the east river!)
NYC also has and East End Avenue(only a few blocks long) and West End Avenue.
5th Avenue ends at 8th street, a the north end of the Greenwich Square park, At the south end of the park, the east/west division line moves one block west, to broadway.
You know, I was thinking as I walked around the office, here, that maybe the signs do indeed have a litte W or an E, and that I am so parlance-struck, that I never really even notice.
I live in the only city in NZ which uses a US style gridblock numbering system, and here the "East" and "West" are definitely considered part of the name. Being topworlders, of course, we put the direction in the proper place, at the end. My former address for example was "915 Heretaunga St East", often written as "915E". A friend lives at 702 Park Rd North, or 702N Park Rd. The compass point is inseparably part of the address, but the street's name is not the compass point. The curious thing is that we do not use the street/avenue naming convention. Another city in NZ does, but it does not use the gridblock numbering. I don't know if that city's numbered avenues and streets have East and West.
Quote:
Hmmm
Don't believe everything you read! 
***
Street/Avenue convention: not adhered to in Queens, which is unnavigable. Brooklyn is also unnavigable, but it uses no convention whatsoever 
Sorry for delaying in reply: But if didn't already knew, or just have to see it on print, then naturally you guys made it clear; like you always do. Gramercy!
And I'm glad to know there are New Yorkers here. But that's no surprise since nearly all of you are Uncle Sam's folks AFAIK.
Hmm, I wish I knew you guys IRL, of course I'd need an extended ultra-advanced dictionary to properly converse with some...
Edit: you know, I love the awake the debating-monster in you. Sometimes I have to avoid my own threads since you Carpal tunnels dig so deep into things I know nothing about! in a way it makes me feel kinda important to have that effect...
well the old street light/street signs --the white letters on navy (both enamal)ones, not silk screened green/white on aluminum) had the full word East or West (but it was much smaller letters)--you know the kind of signs found on bishops crook's lamp poles.
queens (been living here 25 years) is very difficult to navigate. house numbers have 2 sets of digits.
my old house was at 249-36 -- the first digits(249) indicated that it was close to 249th street.
the second set of digits (36) designated the lot number.
Not a bad system (10-63 Jackson Avenue is near 10th street/63rd lot... )
problem is: Queens has both STREETS and AVENUES that are numbered 10. (so there could be 10-63 Ditmars Blvd, (and the #10 would refer 10th avenue)--so you have to KNOW what is being references (and there is no real clue!) Unless you knew were Jackson avenue in queens was (and where Ditmars blvd was too!)--the 2 'similar numbers' could be 4 miles apart!
Second problem-- While 99% of the time streets are nominal NORTH/SOUTH in oriention --(Nominally means: the streets are more or less parallel to the island of manhattan (which is not quite north/south, but we all pretend it is) and Avenues are more or less (often, a lot less!) cross the streets at right angles (ie, nominally the run east/west,
Queens if full of roads, places, courts, drives, and lanes,blvds, and parkways as well avenues. (and these can and do replace streets!)
its not uncommon for you to find 67th Avenue to be followed by 67th Drive, 67th Road, followed by Jewel Avenue--
and then followed by 71st STREET (68th, 69th and 70th totally missing!)
Nor is it uncommon for streets to change names as they cross intersections.. (stand on one side of Queens Blvd, and you're at 63 Drive (a 2 way street) cross the Blvd, and you are on 63rd Road, (a 1 way street) and 63rd Drive is a block away (200 or so feet!) (well at least the subway stairs are right--on both sides of the street, the 63rd Drive subway stop exits are at 63rd Drive--
(meanwhile, try to exit the #1/9/3/4, (or the A, E, D, F) trains to West 4th street from the West 4th street station--Dare you to!)
Manhattan is by far, the easiest borough to navigate. the bronx, is almost as easy, (it follows the same plan, but its avenues are all named (only Park Avenue continues with its name unchanged from Manhattan to the bronx)
Queens is bad, and the rule in brooklyn is: NEVER GET OFF THE HIGHWAY. but even Brooklyn is easy compared to Staten Island.
ALL of queens resembles the twisted confusing streets of lower manhattan (a 3 square mile area)--but queens is 100 square mile area!
Near were i used to live, there is an interesting intersection. Its pretty much a true + (vs a X shaped intersection)
the Road, (little neck parkway) runs North/South. travel on it 1 block south of Grand Centeral Parkway, and the cross street is labeled 273rd Street (on the East side of Little Neck parkway) On the WEST side of Little Neck Parkway, the street is 268th Street.
Its enough to drive you crazy!
Quote:
Its enough to drive you crazy!
Case in point.
Signage be damned, I maintain that here, as in OZ, the street is named the number, the cardinal is an encumbrance of need. The DOT may paint or print, stencil or silk screen, but yet lost! lost! we are all lost!
Dear god, of troy, that's so much than what I bargained for!
I am so not touring in New York ever never ever. I do wonder how's R'lyeh this time-a-year... zmjezhd?
I do wonder how's R'lyeh this time-a-yearRather wet. No street signage, though.
My favorite street signage was in Budapest and Beograd in December of 1990. All the major streets had been renamed (usually to their pre-Communist names) and the old signage had been torn down or defaced. Most available maps still had the older Communist names
Then there was the street sign in someplace in inner Boston. Not sure of the details so the street names are probably off and the date is uncertain but it was something like:
Oak St. (Front St, 1732)
I allus figgered somebody had his great to the 9th granddaddy's address book and it had an address on Front St. and he wasn't going to change it for nobody.
two fronts, no oaks (scroll down, or search for "front street")
While I'm here, it is subway talk: the A train stops at "West 4th Street," but at "23rd Street," "125th Street," etc. And the A train has it right.
IP:
You missed the opportunity to title your post:
Take the A Train for example.
Yup, West 4th Street get labeled WEST but most stations don't get East or West labels. but there is a reason--(likewise, my subway stop is 63rd Drive Rego Park.)
Logwood wanted to know how to treat the word east in an address- and no one in manhattan lives at ### 23(rd) Street.
they live a ### EAST 23(rd) Street or ### WEST 23(rd) Street. that is how its written on the envelop for a mailing address, and that what we say. "i live on EAST (or WEST) number street. (we might not immediately share our house number, but we will often say which street.)
reguarding the subway, i think the reason there that some stations are called EAST or WEST is because each station needs to have a specific name, unique name. so all 3 42nd Street stops have names.(Grand Central,5th Avenue, and Times Square--not only for the #7 train, but for the uptown/downtown trains-- 2,3,6, the D, F, and 1,4, E, A, C. -- even back when they were the IRT, IND and BMT, the individual companies would want to be able to tell stations apart.
On the east side, the local #6 station is 33rd Street, but on the west side, the IRT stops at 34th. (and the D,F,R,N all stop on 32nd street.
all of those station extend from 32nd street to 34th Street-(and have 2 or more exits) so if you says 33rd street station, you can only mean the east side local. (on the west side, one of the 34th street stations is 34th street/Penn Station (the IRT) the other is just 34th street(the IND) --once again creating unique names.
There is a 4th street station on the east side. (which is called Astor place instead of East 4th Street) Unique name requirements are why West 4th Street station is WEST.
(and you know there are 2 main exits. West 3rd street or West 8th Street-- there is no exit to West 4th street.)
Quote:
no exit
How very existential.
Helen, Helen, Helen!
Logwood asked whether "East" and "West" were part of the street *name, not whether it was included in the address; and going by the tiles on the subway walls, they are not.
Astor Place isn't West Fourth Street at all, it is just the dinky little side kick of 8th Street, and runs only from Broadway to Third Ave, at Cooper Union, its confluence with Eighth Street. From there on East, it's St. Mark's Place all the way to Avenue A.
Incidentally, O, nominated mascot, Avenue A *is named "Avenue A."
Well, I lived on E. 11th Street in NYC for awhile....and we always said East 11th Street. I also worked on W. 10th and we always said West 10th.
My folks also had a home on E. Lotus Road in Wildwood Crest, NJ, a barrier island community with two other towns, Wildwood and N. Wildwood. The island was divided into east and west street addresses by a north-south street named New Jersey Avenue. What hasn't been nmentioned is the postal neccesity of including the East/West designation for mailing purposes. If someone addressed our mail 128 W. (or West) Lotus Rd., then it would go to a different address (house)...not ours.
I would say, if you're going to translate it and East or West is in the English, the something like that should be in the Hebrew, too.