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Posted By: HoopyFrood A Grammar Question - 12/27/05 08:00 AM
I read that the sentence, "The Tigers are my favorite team," is grammaticaly correct. I've always thought the proper verb was "is". Does anyone know the rule?
Posted By: Faldage Re: A Grammar Question - 12/27/05 11:01 AM
We generally go with grammar by form for such matters in the good ole US&A. "The Tigers are …" vs. "Detroit is …" For teams with singular names you would see, e.g., "Cornell is …" and "Big Red is …" In the UK you will frequently see grammar by meaning with such constructions as "Arsenal are …"
Posted By: HoopyFrood Re: A Grammar Question - 12/27/05 11:22 AM
But it's grammatically correct to say the "the lemon and banana ARE on the table." I don't understand why "team" shouldn't always take the verb 'is'.
Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: A Grammar Question - 12/27/05 01:13 PM
Tigers has an s.
Posted By: Father Steve Re: A Grammar Question - 12/27/05 01:45 PM
When reading British periodicals, one comes across the following sort of constructions:

"The Ministry are letting contracts ..."
"The Ministry are preparing for ..."

These sounds off to the ears of residents of the USA because we think of a department of government as being a unit, an entity, a single thing and single things take singular verbs. To reach the mindset of Brits, it is necessary to mentally add some words, e.g.:

"(Officials of) the Ministry are letting contracts ..."
"(Members of) the Ministry are preparing for ..."
Posted By: of troy Re: A Grammar Question - 12/27/05 01:52 PM
the real answers is: teams (a collective treated as singular noun) should use is.
HOWEVER- some collective nouns are treated as plurals, this is especailly true, (but not exclusively true) if they end in an S.
Finally--there is no way to know which collective nouns are exceptions--they generally are local idioms. (Local being used to define a variety of english, (UK, US, etc))

Dam'd if i can think of an example right now, but others will join in with more examples--hundreds...
and while most will be american (US) english idioms, not all will be. One has already been provided- (Arsenal)
Posted By: zmjezhd Re: A Glamo(u)r Question - 12/27/05 05:17 PM
When you're listening late at night
You may think the band are not quite right
But they are, they just play it like that.

[Geo. Harrison. Only a Northern Song]
Posted By: wsieber Re: A Glamo(u)r Question - 12/27/05 06:12 PM
they just play it like that. Rimshot
Posted By: HoopyFrood Re: A Grammar Question - 12/28/05 01:00 AM
Thank you.
Posted By: inselpeter Re: A Grammar Question - 12/28/05 11:12 AM
As far as I'm concerned, it's "the Tigers is," but it just sounds funny, and people can't be bothered.
Posted By: Faldage Re: A Grammar Question - 12/28/05 11:23 AM
Quote:

As far as I'm concerned, it's "the Tigers is," but it just sounds funny, and people can't be bothered.




If it sounds funny, apply Safire's Rule:

If it sounds funny, the hell with it.
Posted By: inselpeter Re: A Grammar Question - 12/28/05 01:41 PM
Quote:

Quote:

As far as I'm concerned, it's "the Tigers is," but it just sounds funny, and people can't be bothered.




If it sounds funny, apply Safire's Rule:

If it sounds funny, the hell with it.




An excellent rule, to be sure. Not to say that sounding funny isn't sometimes just the ticket.
Posted By: maygodbwidu Re: A Grammar Question - 12/28/05 04:19 PM
helo....what is the Safire's Rule? please explain Faldage.
Posted By: Faldage Re: A Grammar Question - 12/29/05 12:18 AM
Quote:

helo....what is the Safire's Rule? please explain Faldage.




Safire's Rule:

If it sounds funny, the hell with it.
Posted By: consuelo For Kits - 12/29/05 01:00 AM
I know you wanted more information, Kits. Click on http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/books/845/safire.htm for William Safire's Rules of Writing.
Posted By: inselpeter Re: For Kits - 12/29/05 12:10 PM
Quote:

I know you wanted more information, Kits. Click on http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/books/845/safire.htm for William Safire's Rules of Writing.




Proving that if it sounds funny, it might be just the ticket.
Posted By: tsuwm Re: For Kits - 12/29/05 03:26 PM
did I just miss it, or does that site *not include "Safire's Rule"?
Posted By: inselpeter Nevermind Safire - 12/29/05 03:59 PM
"Trajan was ambitious of fame; and as long as mankind shall continue to bestow more liberal applause on their destroyers than on their benefactors, the thirst of military glory will ever be the vice of the most exalted characters.

Gibbon, Decline and Fall
Posted By: zmjezhd Re: generic singular they - 12/29/05 05:39 PM
Gibbon, Decline and Fall

It's even older than that.
Posted By: inselpeter Re: generic singular they - 12/29/05 06:19 PM
Quote:

Gibbon, Decline and Fall

It's even older than that.




Yeah, but I kinda liked the quote.
Posted By: zmjezhd Re: generic singular they - 12/30/05 03:11 AM
Yeah, but I kinda liked the quote.

Me, too. It's certainly well-written. The man is gifted.
Posted By: sjmaxq Re: generic singular they - 12/30/05 03:43 AM
Quote:

Yeah, but I kinda liked the quote.
The man is gifted.




With an incredibly long lifespan, if the above tense is valid.
Posted By: Daedalus Re: A Grammar Question - 12/30/05 04:48 PM
The word "Tigers" used in the sentence is a count noun and implies more than one. Therefore "are" is correct. If you use Big Red it is a non-count noun and needs therefore to use "is".
Posted By: maygodbwidu Re: generic singular they - 12/30/05 05:28 PM
hiee...

thanks for that link..just cheked it..looks good...lol.
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