Points to anyone who can post what this word means. Extra
credit for correct punctuation.

Xara, Jeffrey, and Alex, you are disqualified from responding, unless you genuinely have no idea. You too,
Anna, if your specialized background gives you this knowledge. Jazzo., if you know--keep mum.

If no one posts the correct answer first, I'll do it after the on-line-at-work-only folks have had a chance to view it.

Hint: it is VERY loosely related to the word 'treckly'.

Ah, shucks, Jackie... [draggin'-toe-in-dirt emoticon]... I allow as how I might rightly know them thar words, and wouldn't be s'prised no how if they ain't current in some o' them ole countries that done did settle our lil piece o' heaven.
But I shall bide my time... and wait for the first scallywag to google and claim prior knowledge.

W





Dear Jackie: Wunst upon a time, I think I knew.

onct (oncet) upon a time there were many strange variations on the spellings* (and pronunciations) of these numerical adverbs; twict (twicet) I have found entries now in the OED, which accompanying citations; e.g., 1934 C. Carmer "Chillun... think twict befo' yuh speak onct."

see, the thing about the OED is that it has a comprehensive descriptive history of our language up until about 1985, including much English and American dialect. (and if I can't find it there, I can always resort to DARE ;)

*(twaIs) Forms: 2–5 twies, 4 twyese, tweis, 4–5 twyys, tweies, 4–6 twyes, twys, Sc. twyss, 4 (7 Sc.) tuis, 4–7 twyse, twise, 5 tweys, 5 (6 Sc.) twyis, tuyse, 5–6 twis, Sc. tuys(s, 6 Sc. twyiss, tweyss, tuyss, tuise, 7 twyce, 5– twice; 6 twyst, 7 twist, 9 dial. twyste, twiste, 9– dial. twicet, twict.

see, the thing about the OED is

Dam' Yankee. [snorting in disgusted retreat emoticon]

But you didn't mention this is still in use!
[illusion of one shred of dignity emoticon]

>think twict befo' yuh speak onct

And the famous AWAD motto "think twict befo' yuh post onct".

Around here, Pennsylvania Dutchies say "onct", but it sounds more like "vunst" and is used in a different way. For instance, you might say "Come over and visit vunst!" (Meaning "Come over and visit sometime!" or something close to that.) Its precise meaning seems to vary with the situation.

I wouldn't have known this except for the fact that our very sarcastic divisional manager will only write his subordinates a nice note or e-mail (for thank-you, congratulations or whatever) using such archaic language as "onct" (once), "twict" (twice), "anon", and others I forget because I don't get them...

Even so, I may be wrong. In addition, I have no idea how this is all connected to treckly... was it treckly?

Treckly is a description of a form of speech which maximises the use of split infinitives. It is fairly easy to speak in a treckly way but I would not boldly go there.

Jazzo., if you know--keep mum.

Cincinnata ain't in the suthrin US! I didn't have a clue, Ms. Jackie.

Treckly is a description of a form of speech which maximises the use of split infinitives

No fair! If that is the case, it should be spelled "trekly". You Americans with your supererogatory consonants, I don't know!

that twarn't no american that posited that conjecture, joe riposted supererogatively.

>that twarn't no american that posited that conjecture, joe riposted supererogatively.

No, a mere Pom!

My apologies, jo. I did not realise that your answer was conjecture, and assumed that "treckly" meant what you suggested. This would mean that the definition was USian in origin, hence my jibe.

>My apologies, jo

No apologies needed Max, I was just having a bit of fun !

No apologies needed Max

Oh, but it was! I figure that if I diligently apologise for every possible imagined slight or unintended offence in any of my posts, I might just be able to rack up 25 posts a day, which would see me hit "veteran" by anniversary day.

Rapunzel:

Many years ago, a fellow I knew from the Johnstown area stopped me in my tracks by saying, "The lawn needs mowed." I had never heard this abomination before, and have since heard it mainly from natives of the Keystone state. Do you, or does anyone, know if this is a regional dialectical thing.

I will not ask your reaction to the construction itself, unless you want to wax wroth. Or have wroth wax you, as the late G. Marx once said.

Ted

The lawn needs mowed.

I often hear similar sentence constructions in this area, which is quite a long way from Johnstown. It may be a PA Dutch thing, but I couldn't say for sure. Maybe Bobyoungbalt can help me out.

"The lawn needs mowed" is certainly not a construction which has made its way to mid-Michigan, despite some significant German centers of immigration in the area.

So, did the lawn get mowed onct or twict?

German has never had the effect on English that Pennsylvania Dutch has had, notwithstanding the fact that Pa.Dutch is a German dialect. Baltimore, from the 1870's to the WWI era, was a very German city, due to the fact that the Hamburg-Amerika ships, which carried most of the German immigrants, stopped in Baltimore, not NY. There were public schools that taught in German up to WWI. Yet, in spite of all this, there is no Germanic influence in the local English.

PA Dutch, on the other hand, had a considerable influence on the English used in Lancaster and Berks counties of PA, which is the big Dutch area. It's in the odd and often colorful expressions and contorted syntax used, also in the spoken language. There is a peculiar intonation to a Dutch accent which is different from standard English. (This is probably dying out. When I was a boy, 50 years ago, it was almost universal in the Dutch areas; nowadays, you don't hear it much.)

As to the expression in question, I have heard such a construction used by Dutchmen now and then, not often, but with the word wants, which a Dutchman is more likely to use than needs. It's not an expression generally used in the Dutch-English dialect.

Onct
Rapunzel reports a Dutch usage which is very common. We use it often in my family. We might say to a child, "Come here onct and let me wipe your face." And, as she notes, it has no precise meaning, but seems to be a sort of intensive or hortatory expression. Although a very different construction, it's similar to the Southern usage y'heah, as in, "Y'all come back real soon now, y'heah!"

I don't see how this sentence could have originated from German - I suppose someone who was too lazy to mow the lawn could also have dispensed with to be.

After an extended visit with friends in Lancaster and Lititz Pennsylvania the family picked up many Pennsylvania Dutch expression which we used en famille :
Examples : Put the shut on the light (Turn out the lights)
Too soon old and too late smart. Self explanatory. And quite useful!
I had the pleasure of meeting several Amish and Mennonite families who treated me most cordially and introduced me to Shoo Fly Pie and other delights!
Oh, if you're ever in Lancaster do not miss the Farmer's Market ... The Amish fruits and vegetables on offer are simply out of this world delicious. All farming done without pesticide, everything natural. Peaches the size of grapefuits an bite into one and the juice runs down your chin.
Excuse me, I wax poetic ... but boy is their produce GOOD !!
wow

New Zealand has it's linguistic oddities, mostly born out of ignorance. There is an area in central Southland where until comparatively recently you could hear the Southland drawl (which is still common) mixed with unusual expressions. It was in this area (the Hokonui Hills) that moonshine was made at a time when prohibition reigned, from about 1920 to about 1950. Unfortunately I can't really remember any of the language quirks with one exception which would, of course, impress the bejaysus out of a city boy.

A discussion in the late 1960s about the use of fertilisers came around to DDT and the overuse of superphosphate fertilisers and organic farming, a new expression at the time. One woman, a friend of my aunt who came from an area north of Spring Hills in the southern Hokonuis was talking about growing crops "orgasmically". It might have just been her, but no one else either smiled nor corrected her.

Incidentally, my wife comes from the Spring Hills area. But she has neither the drawl nor the ignorance!

>"The lawn needs mowed."

I dunno. It kinda reminds me of the Mad Hatter's "Your hair wants cutting."

In reply to:

---

put the shut on the light

---

The people you were visiting must have been recent immigrants; this is not the usual expression. My cousins in Lititz, Lancaster and Reading say, "Outen the light." (We say it in my house; even my wife, a native of Baltimore, says it.)

"Y'all come back real soon now, y'heah!"

Just for a switch, a simple math problem If a one acre lawn is mowed with a ten inch swath, what is the minimum distance the mower must walk? You'll be surprised!

Oh, Bill ... I hated those problems in school ...had a major flashback to Sister shaking her head in disappointment.
{Shudder}
Scythed a half of a half acre (quarter acre? D'uh) once when *much* younger. Don't know how many steps ... but it took a good two hours if memory serves.
wow

Dear wow: one of the few things I remember from college math is "Explore the means and extremes". If you think of trying to mow a lawn 100 feet by 440 feet, you can get bewildered particularly if you go round and round it in a nest of diminishing squares. But a certified genius like me
will think;"What if the lawn were ten inches wide, how long would it have to be to be an acre?" Then it is trivial.Every computer has a calculator. Work it out. If the swath were a foot wide, the lawn would be 44,000 long.
If the swath is 10 inches, that is 5/6 feet. 44,000 divided by 5/6 equals 52,800. Since 5,280 feet equals one mile, in mowing that long skinny lawn you would have had to walk TEN miles.
I had fun one day working this out in my head, while mowing a lawn thankfully nowhere near an acre. I'd never have finished it.

10 inches, that is 5/6 feet. 44,000 divided by 5/6 equals 52,800 ...fun working this out in my head
------------------------------------------------
That is scary!
Sure, easy if you have a passing familiarity with numbers!
Why'd you think I took up writing?
wow
And I can do my checkbook. That's straightforward

Come again TEd?



Snicker, snicker, snicker.

>"Come over and visit vunst!" (Meaning "Come over and visit sometime!" or something close to that.)

How odd. French Québecois often use the same expression. Tu passeras une fois! (you can pass once) which also means come and visit sometime.

I have read that in some cultures coupling in the rows was supposed to induce the fields to propagate.
Quite literally "growing crops orgasmically".

It was pretty odd - I'm absolutely certain I heard correctly. And, as I said, no one batted an eyelid.

Although I've never been into real hillbilly country in the States, I think you'd find that while the Hokonuis people weren't quite so insular and inbred, they were a group which still considered itself to be under seige (as they were, in a manner of speaking, during prohibition) and pretty much kept themselves to themselves. The misuse of that word was probably only the tip of an iceburg. But that one struck a young lad whose hormones were already doing backflips quite forcibly!