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Posted By: hollisr Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 07/31/05 02:35 PM
I have been asked to research the origins of the word, “goodwill,” and to compare the concept of goodwill in several languages, including a European and an Asian language. Frankly, I am at a loss, and I wonder whether you all can help me.

I have found the definition and etymology in my Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology, which takes the word “good” back to the Gothic sense of “fitting, suitable,” and then traces the development of “goodwill.” Is there any point in tracing the meaning of the earlier words listed in the dictionary (Old English, Dutch, etc.)?

And, can anyone help me with concept of goodwill as expressed in other languages? A friend who speaks Spanish told me, for example, that in Spain there are "goodwill" societies which are largely religious in nature and which seem to use the concept of goodwill to encourage people to extend to others the regard that God extends to us.

Thanks for whatever help you can offer!

Hollis



Posted By: plutarch Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 07/31/05 03:12 PM
Welcome, hollisr.

Others who know more about word origins than I do will be along shortly, I'm sure.

In the meantime, the word for "goodwill" in Spanish is "voluntad" [or "buena voluntad"].

Here is a "Voluntad" based in Barcelona which does not appear to be affiliated with any religious organization and which performs good works on behalf of the disadvantaged in "the fourth world" ["cuarto mundo"].

Buena Voluntad En Accion*

http://snipurl.com/gmfn

* Although Alta Vista translates "goodwill" as "voluntad" in Spanish, this organization is called "Buena Voluntad" which presumably translates as "good volunteerism" rather than "good goodwill".

The Italian word for "goodwill" is "benevolenza" which is interesting because we can see the connection between "good" and "voluntary" again.

Of course, "benevolenza" is very close to our word "benevolent". In fact, Merriam-Webster defines "benevolent" [see defn. 2 below] as "marked by goodwill":

Main Entry: be·nev·o·lent
Pronunciation: -l&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin benevolent-, benevolens, from bene + volent-, volens, present participle of velle to wish -- more at WILL
1 a : marked by or disposed to doing good <a benevolent donor> b : organized for the purpose of doing good <a benevolent society>
2 : marked by or suggestive of goodwill <benevolent smiles>

http://snipurl.com/gmfv


Posted By: plutarch "Wohl" - "Wohlwollen" - 07/31/05 03:41 PM
Wohlwollen is "goodwill" in German, hollisr.

This may take you down a different path:

Wohl- denotes the good or agreeable:
die Wohlfahrt - welfare
das Wohlsein - well-being
das Wohlwollen - goodwill

http://snipurl.com/gmg5

In Russian, the biblical benediction "'On earth peace, and goodwill to all men!" translates «Íà çåìëå ìèð, â ÷åëîâåöåõ áëàãîâîëåíèå!».

Source: ÑÂÅ×ÊÀ ["The Candle"}
http://snipurl.com/gmgf

Russian is greek to me, hollisr. Sorry. :)

Posted By: Faldage Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 07/31/05 04:06 PM
For what it's worth, the Latin is bona voluntas. It is seen in the line from the Christmas reading, "Gloria in altissimis Deo, et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis." (Luke 2:14)

Posted By: of troy Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 07/31/05 04:08 PM
re: Although Alta Vista translates "goodwill" as "voluntad" in Spanish, this organization is called "Buena Voluntad" which presumably translates as "good volunteerism" rather than "good goodwill".


is this a WAG(wild a$$ guess?) or do you KNOW for sure that voluntad (which i admit sounds similar to the english word volunteer) means volunteer?

the italian word benevolenzais close to the english benevolent--but the 'volent-->volens' part goes back to a root word for 'wish" and directs reader to the word will.

a volunteer is someone who 'wishes' to work (not someone who is forced into labor, or compelled by law, or even by basic need to work to earn their bread.) so there is a relationship between volunteer, and benevolent, and the spanish voluntad.

but i don't agree that buena voluntad (good wishes) is equal or even well translated as good volunteerism.they are related words but i don't think its safe to assume that buena voluntad means good volunteerism.. (based just on the info you posted.)

i don't know spanish, and i am very willing to listen to what anyone who knows spanish has to say.. but your post (well the part i quoted) sounds an awfull lot like folk etemology.



Posted By: Faldage Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 07/31/05 04:47 PM
My Spanish-English dictionary translates voluntad as will and offers the phrase buena voluntad for goodwill. My diccionario usual offers a definition for voluntad that supports this and also offers a definition for buena voluntad that reaffirms this support.

Posted By: of troy Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 07/31/05 05:10 PM
and while 'good' and 'will' seem to be natural partners, i know will (and willful) as critizism.

i was a 'willful' child. that is, i had a mind of my own, and expected to be able to act on my 'wishes' and behave as i thought fit. (it was one of the sharpest critizism my mother hurled at me..)

my willfulness was expressed in how i wanted to dress, or to wear my hair, or how i wanted to knit, (i don't knit in a conventional european style) and in a hundred of other small ways. (you'd think to hear my mother complain about me, i was a convicted felon before i was 10, instead of well behaved catholic school girl (that i mostly was)

Now days, i would agree, i was (and remain) willful.

in catholisism, (and in christianity, too) its considered a good thing not to be willful.
you are expected to conform to 'god's will" (as it presented and interpted by the church..)

the lovely shaker hymn has the words: "when true simplisity is gained, to bow and to bend i will not be ashamed" and the bending here is bending one's will to conform--to act as it has been decided you should act.

nuns (and some priests) and most brothers in catholic orders take vows of obedience.. they promise to yeild, to not be willful, but to obey. (and what's more to do so cheerfully!)

and the comment "Do what you will, i wash my hands of you." (is that scripture?) is not one of 'well wishing' or reguard.


Posted By: hollisr Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 07/31/05 06:33 PM
So, another question: Can you offer a distinction between the definition or the connotations of "benevolence" (Latin derivation) and "goodwill" (Germanic derivation)? They aren't entirely interchangable, are they?

hollis
Posted By: Father Steve Goodwill (legal) - 07/31/05 06:48 PM
Goodwill has a legal meaning, quite apart from those mentioned thus far in this thread. Goodwill is an intangible asset of a business enterprise, which explains why its value may be more than the sum of the value of its tangible assets. It has to do with prestige, a good name in the community, the reputation of the people running the company, its business history, and any other intangible factors which attract and retain customers.

PS: Seattlites are always welcome here. Didja see the SeaFair Torchlight Parade last night?

Posted By: plutarch Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 07/31/05 08:26 PM
re "distinction between the definition -- of "benevolence" (Latin derivation) and "goodwill" (Germanic derivation)? They aren't entirely interchangable, are they?

I don't speak German, hollisr, but "wollen", German for "will", looks suspiciously like "volens", latin for "willing", to me.

So it's possible(?) they both come from the same root.

German-English translations for "wollen":

to will
to want to

http://snipurl.com/gml0

Posted By: Elizabeth Creith Re: Goodwill (legal) - 08/01/05 12:40 PM
Goodwill has a legal meaning, quite apart from those mentioned thus far in this thread. Goodwill is an intangible asset of a business enterprise, which explains why its value may be more than the sum of the value of its tangible assets.
Fr. Steve, you took the words right out of my mouth! When David and I bought the pet store, about half the purchase price was for "goodwill". When my father sold his cranes to another company, the company hired him as well in order to get the goodwill, because they figured my dad's customers would go to the company where he was working.

Posted By: Elizabeth Creith Re: Goodwill (legal) - 08/01/05 12:46 PM
I forgot to mention - a propos of the Spanish usage, there is an organization in Canada which used to be called "Crippled Civilians" and is now called "Good Will" (or possibly "Goodwill"). It is one of those charitable organizations that raise money by re-selling donated used items.

Posted By: Churl Pat Re: Goodwill (legal) - 08/01/05 01:29 PM
I'd been looking for them.

Posted By: Marianna Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 08/01/05 01:41 PM
Hmmm... I thought I might be able to clear up a bit of the Spanish side of this thread, but I am confused about what meaning of "goodwill" hollisr is actually referring to.

I might be desperately wrong, but for me, "goodwill" in English is a synonym for "charity", i.e. an organisation or group that works to help the poor or otherwise deprived. In Spanish we refer to these as "obra benéfica / de beneficencia", and sometimes as "organización sin ánimo de lucro" (non-profit). If I'm wrong about the meaning of the English "goodwill", then obviously this doesn't apply to hollisr's question, so please don't pay any attention.

Regarding "voluntad", that word merely means "will", i.e. an inclination or determination to do something. "Buena voluntad", therefore, means you are well disposed to do something. "Et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis", which Faldage quoted from Luke, is "y en la tierra paz a los hombres de buena voluntad", I'm not sure what is the prevalent translation of this phrase in English, but it would be a functional equivalent in this case.

"Voluntad", however, can never be taken to mean "volunteering", although the two are related. For "volunteering" we would say "ser voluntario", or "hacer trabajo voluntario", or something like that.

I hope this was not too tangled.
Marianna

Posted By: belligerentyouth Re: "Wohl" - "Wohlwollen" - 08/01/05 01:52 PM
Re. Goodwill = Wohlwollen

Goodwill could also be described as 'Kulanz' in German when used in the sense, 'He did it for them on goodwill" ('aus Kulanz'). The economic meaning F.Steve describes is either 'Firmenwert', 'ideeler Firmenwert' or simply 'Goodwill' in German. If you're getting touchy-feely then 'Wohlwollen' is fine though.

- Ex propinquitate benevolentia tolli potest, ex amicitia non potest.

Posted By: plutarch Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 08/01/05 02:43 PM
I hope this was not too tangled

On the contrary, it was quite untangling, Marianna.

We are fortunate to have someone with your depth in Spanish to clarify this for us.

I am guilty of making the connection between "volunteerism" and "Buena Voluntad".

I was projecting my sense of the meaning of "Buena Voluntad", not a literal translation - the 'sense' being that "volunteers" typically do things "pro bono", for the public good, without remuneration.

This is the sense in which I understood the name "Buena Voluntad", the Barcelona organization which undertakes charitable works in the "4th world".

re "goodwill" in English is a synonym for "charity", i.e. an organisation or group that works to help the poor or otherwise deprived.

"Goodwill" is not really a synonym for "charity" [i.e. a charitable organization] in english, Marianna, although some charities use the word in their name, as Elizabeth Creith has noted just above.

"Benevolent society" is a better term for a charitable organization in english, I suggest.

In fact, Merriam-Webster cites "benevolent society" as an example of a group organized for the purpose of doing good:

Main Entry: be·nev·o·lent

Etymology: Middle English, from Latin benevolent-, benevolens, from bene + volent-, volens, present participle of velle to wish -- more at WILL
1 a : marked by or disposed to doing good <a benevolent donor> b : organized for the purpose of doing good <a benevolent society>
2 : marked by or suggestive of goodwill <benevolent smiles>



Posted By: plutarch Re: "Wohl" - "Wohlwollen" - 08/01/05 03:04 PM
B-Y:

With your expertise in German, perhaps you can advise Hollisr if "wollen" shares the same root in latin [i.e. "volens"] as our english word "benevolence"?

Hollisr is asking about 'interchangeability':

"They aren't entirely interchangable, are they?"


Posted By: Faldage Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 08/01/05 10:34 PM
I'm not sure what is the prevalent translation of this phrase in English

We usually end up translating "Et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis" as "And on earth peace, good will toward men," which is rather a bad meaning shift for which we have auld Jamie Stewart to thank.

Posted By: Bingley Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 08/02/05 03:20 AM
Actually, as I understand it (and I admit this isn't very far), the Greek text at this point is not certain. It may read eudokia (nominative), which would agree with the Authorised (King James) Version: Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men., or it may read eudokias (genitive) which would be closer to the Latin version Faldage quotes.

It is also possible that the Greek says something completely different, as the NRSV says:
... and on earth peace among those whom he favours, with peace, goodwill among people, relegated to a footnote.

Bingley
Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re:Comparisons of "goodwill" - 08/02/05 12:04 PM
I am guilty of making the connection between "volunteerism" and "Buena Voluntad".

Now might be a good time to point out that there are a few of us who still post here who are fluent in more than one language, and it might behoove those -- you know who you are -- who are only making guesses to allow some of the polyglots to reply first to such questions. This would contribute to keeping newcomers and others who ask good questions around.

Anyway, back on topic, Marianna. The same is true of the Portuguese boa vontade, meaning good will. Nothing to do with volunteers, and I am sorry you were steered astray, hollisr. Hope you'll stick around!

Posted By: Marianna Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 08/02/05 12:14 PM
Wow, Bingley, how interesting! Oh, and thanks everyone else.

Posted By: hollisr Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 08/07/05 02:49 PM
Thanks so much for your attention to my questions. It's helped a lot. I like the discussions - including the wayward paths and corrections. Thanks - Hollis

hollis
Posted By: Faldage But, wait! - 08/07/05 04:23 PM
That's not all!

One of my Japanese dictionaries translates goodwill as zen'i:

zen - good, goodness, virtue
i - mind, heart, attention, care

The other only translates it into kanji. The kanji aren't the same as the ones transliterated as zen'i and I haven't been able to track them down.

Posted By: hollisr Re: But, wait! - 08/07/05 05:54 PM
Is the "zen" in this usage related to the "zen" used with "zen Buddhism"?

hollis
Posted By: Faldage Re: But, wait! - 08/07/05 07:26 PM
Is the "zen" in this usage related to the "zen" used with "zen Buddhism"

Nope. Whole nother word. You get that a lot in languages with lots of one syllable words. In Chinese, even with tones, you can get get several different readings of the same sound. That's why Chinese words are generally combinations of two characters. Built in redundancy clarifies meaning. In Japanese sometimes, if there's a chance of ambiguity in speech, speakers will draw the kanji on their palms to indicate which of several possible interpretations is the correct one.

Posted By: consuelo Re: Origin & comparisons of "goodwill" - 09/04/05 12:13 AM
"Buena voluntad", therefore, means you are well disposed to do something.

Hola, Marianna. Yes, this is also my understanding. I think it also encompasses the intangibles of the spirit but I could be wrong. Spanish is my second language.

Edit: The opposite would be "de mala gana", contextually translated to mean that you would do or are doing something even though you don't really want to do it. I can't think right now what a more literal translation might be.
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