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Posted By: Jackie Within reason - 03/16/05 03:12 AM
A conversation with someone the other day made me wonder: when we say something like, 'Your self-confidence comes from within you', why isn't its opposite, 'Your self-confidence comes from without you'?

Posted By: Sparteye Re: Within reason - 03/16/05 07:21 PM
I am without an answer.

Posted By: nancyk Re: Within reason - 03/16/05 07:35 PM
And why do I have no problem using "without" in Jackie's example if I leave out the "you"?

Self-confidence comes from within. Self-confidence comes from without.

Posted By: inselpeter Re: Within reason - 03/16/05 10:27 PM
<<and why do I have no>>

My guess is that it's because "without" is more commonly used to connote "not together with" than "outside," whereas "within" has not parallel connotation -- at least, not that I'm aware of.

Posted By: Zed Re: Within reason - 03/17/05 07:54 PM
And why do I have no problem using "without" in Jackie's example if I leave out the "you"?
Because "without" is understood to refer to "you" when they are together. Without as a place is old and seldom used but I do remember reading about something or someone being "without the house" in a very old novel. ?Jane Austin? or some such.


Posted By: Jackie Re: Within reason - 03/17/05 11:51 PM
I asked Bingley about this, and he said about the same thing as you did, insel: that without has pretty much come to mean 'not accompanied by'; which I knew, of course, but.
It would be so nice and logical, wouldn't it, if without you was the opposite of within you? Dag nab changes, anyway [only half-joking e]; anybody know when this one took place?

Posted By: maverick Re: Within reason - 03/18/05 12:09 AM
Have you seen this J?

without
O.E. wiğutan, lit. "against the outside," see with + out. Used since late M.E. as a conjunction, short for without that.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=without&searchmode=term


[dai gression] asks where friend Bing is just now? you're missed, mate [/dai gression]

Posted By: inselpeter Re: Within reason - 03/19/05 12:53 PM
<<would be so nice and logical>>

Bring it back, Jackie; bring it back.

Posted By: Bridget Re: bring it back - 03/20/05 08:18 PM
I used to work with a Scotsman who consistently used 'outwith' instead of 'without' - and in one of those lovely Scots accents as well (I'm a sucker for Gaelic accents)! Ah, nostalgia!!!

Anyone else have experience of this?

Posted By: Saranita Re: Within reason - 04/11/05 05:49 PM
When should one use "self-confidence" instead of "confidence"? "Self-confidence" comes up often in the commendation letters I type at work, as in "You exhibit admirable self-confidence," and I always wonder why we don't simply say, "You exhibit admirable confidence." Of course, then I start to wonder exactly when exhibiting confidence would not be admirable. *sigh* I do not have the confidence (or is it self-confidence?) to address this question.

saranita
Posted By: Faldage Re: Within reason - 04/11/05 10:18 PM
I'd say that self-confidence is just what it says: confidence in one's self. Confidence all by its lonesome merely implies confidence in some specific thing. I might feel confident in my ability to handle a remote shoot, but when it comes to setting the thing up, I'm a hopeless mass of quivering flesh. No self-confidence.

Posted By: inselpeter Re: Within reason - 04/11/05 10:55 PM
I agree with Faldage. Would only add that to say that used in, "[He] is confident" as a stand-alone sentence, it is something close to "self-confident," and something archaic like "My, but he's confident," implies something else again.

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