news item:

You guys may not like it, but we're at a cultural watershed.

If you cringed at "you guys," brace yourselves. What you're hearing is the vibrant evolution of the American language. Yes, "you guys" is on its way to being proper speech.

Here, linguists say, is what's happening:

In English, "you" is used to address an individual or a crowd. There is no distinct plural form.

The trouble is, we want one. We have "an unconscious need," explains George Goebel, assistant editor of the Dictionary of American Regional English.

"You guys" is a product of this — as are "you all," "youse" (Irish-English), "you lot," "you 'uns" (Scots-Irish), "yins" (chiefly western Pennsylvania) and "y'all." But it is "you guys" that has taken hold.

A 2002-2003 Harvard Survey of North American Dialects, which linguist Bert Vaux authored while teaching at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, found "you guys" the default expression of choice in all U.S. regions but one. (More on that later.)

"Nowadays, very few speakers would consider 'you guys' male only," said Sean McLennan, a doctoral student in linguistics at Indiana University. He is presenting a paper this spring on the gender uses of "guy," "guys" and "you guys" to the Chicago Linguistics Society and finds evidence that even "guy" is edging toward gender neutrality.


"later" it is noted that the only real contender at this time is "y'all", and that in the South.

[from Newhouse News Service via the St. Paul Pioneer Press; edited liberally for space..]

http://www.newhouse.com/archive/Rios042104.html

indubitably.

OK. When I saw this subject line, I thought merely: "wow, this is uncharacteristically exuberant for our tsuwm." The "you guys" bit in itself didn't grate because I... know... where... you... live....

This is going to bring on a lively discussion, I bet. Hope all y'all'll chime in.

I admit that I use "guys" when addressing a whole group of people.

For example, I recently changed cellular phones and sent a note to all of my clients. I had two categories...the uptight and the fun ones.

For the fun ones, I started the e-mail with "Hi guys" even though many are women. Even when the group is all women, I tend to say, hi guys.

It's not new though. I remember everybody using this expression in highschool too.


In French Québec, we'll still identify the gender. We'll say, aye les girls OR aye les boys. Yes, with the words girls and boys said in English.

I doubt that you guys will became standard English for you plural. As a you guys colloquial user from the get-go, I also hope that the other regionalisms do not die out. I particularly like y'all ... Likewise, pronominally, I've always envied languages that have two different first person plural personal pronouns: one for exclusive and the other for inclusive we.

Likewise, pronominally, I've always envied languages that have two different first person plural personal pronouns: one for exclusive and the other for inclusive we.

Can you give me an example of both jheem. I don't know what you're saying.

The inclusive and exclusive are with respect to the hearer (2nd person). We (i.e., you and I) are going to town" versus "We (i.e., he and I) are going to town". Some languages (e.g., kita 'we (incl.)' and kami 'we (excl.)' in Hiligaynon) have different pronouns for both these kinds of "we". Hope this helps.

I'm with Nuncle here. I think it will be some time before you guys becomes acceptable in SWE and I prefer y'all in speech, but I've heard a gender neutral guys since the early '70s at least. I can't say that I've heard it in female only contexts, but then there's always the possibility that I've never attually® been in a female only context.

Sloth: "Hey, you guys!"

~ Goonies (1985)

Hope this helps.

It does thank you.

"you guys" is on its way to being proper speech. AUGH!!! Rant! Rail! [running screaming in circles while pulling hair out e]
I am not a guy, nor will I ever be one!!!!!!!!
I refuse to bow to this. Refuse, I say! It is an abomination towards the entire female population! "You-all" is SO much better: nice and genteel.

You's.

Indonesian also has kita (inclusive)v. kami(exclusive).

I don't think I've ever used 'you guys' in my life. A guy is an effigy burnt on Guy Fawkes Day (Nov. 5).

Bingley

I can peg it at least to 1965. My youngest sister was two and not nearly as adventurous as I. She would stand in her crib on Saturday mornings while the rest of us were watching cartoons and yell "Guys! Hey guys! Let me out!...Alright, you guys!" and rattle the crib. Needless to say, we weren't scared or inclined to go get her

Living always in the south, I thought a transplanted
Michigander's use of the phrase "youse all" was an effort to modify his speech patterns to his new home--Later heard it from other
people, am told it's a common Michigan usage. There are probably more that y'all didn't list as 3rd person plurals.

Well, like others I don't think it will ever be anything more than a universally accepted colloquialism. I've used it myself, whereas I have never used "y'all", even though I am very used to hearing it used.

I think we do want the plural better defined, no argument. I don't know if we need the distinction as made in Indonesian. I have been known, however, to say "you, singular" and "you, plural" when I want what I say to be exquisitely clear ...

I grew up in Los Angeles where everyone says "you guys" regardless of gender, even in an all-female environment. My parents always said "you folks" which was probably a more genteel alternative, and taught us children not to address adults as "you guys."

In college (also in southern California) there were a lot of kids from Texas. We teased them a little for saying "y'all" but admitted it was a little nicer sounding than "you guys." Funny -- they said "all y'all" when addressing larger groups, which tickled us.

One day we asked the kids from Texas how they distinguished between "y'all" and "all y'all." They thought for a moment and the consensus given was that for one to four persons, use "y'all" and for five or more, use "all y'all."

In England it would, of course, for the plural be:

"I say, gentle folk one and all!"

Or else, "OY !!! You lot!"

Ah yes, the teacher's warcry.

I thought so. It does have that feel, as if you hear it only when when you're in the middle of doing something wrong.