long, long ago, when i was a child there was a place called the near east. it included the countries on the continent of asia, that were close to/had ports on the mediterranian.
Europe is a rather small continent, and its is connected to asia--the Ural mountains in the north are the 'dividing line', and further south, most of turkey is in asia, the straights of the dardenells (a passage from the black sea to mediterranian sea)and other bodies of water seperate europe from asia--i forget exactly which river.
i was taught the asian countries, (turkey, syria, lebenon, and israel to name a few), that touched the mediterranian sea, were the near east.
the mid east was made up of country that did not have mediteranian sea ports-- the mid east extended to india--which was labeled 'the indian sub continent' --(all of the land mass below the himalayan mountains--continents didn't care about what political enties existed). China, japan and countries with Pacific ocean sea ports were part of the far east.
now days, there is no 'near east'. "unrest" in israel is 'unrest' in the 'mid east'.
did 'near east' fall out of favor? is it part of some subtle political correctness that i missed? (i have caught on, its not PC to call asians 'orientals'--they should be referred to by country or ethic origins.)
to further confuse things, there are sub areas that have gotten more political clout/press, so now there is 'south east asia'--which includes several countries..
South east asia can be a political code word for 'vietnam', or for some of the 'asian tigers' (singapore and other areas, depending on context.)
am i the only one to have been sleeping when the near east disappeared?
are there other geographic area that have disappeared that i haven't realized? (i know countries and cities go through name changes, and political unrest (and outright war) moves borders round, all the time, between countries, but i am talking about big changes (i think 'losing' the near east is a big change!)
The US and Mexico have such good relation, that when the Rio Grand--(the nomimal 'border' between US/Mexico)moves (-it is a river with many meanders and is constantly changing its course) diplomats just sit down, and quietly haggle over who gets what, and the news rarely is important to anyone out side of a few counties in texas.
I'm more familiar with the term Ancient Near East, and that includes ancient Sumer / Babylon, now modern Iraq. The A-H dictionary gives: "Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the other countries of the Arabian Peninsula. Egypt and Sudan in northeast Africa are sometimes considered part of the region." I think it's more a toponym of the mind ... I mean to me the Far East is west of me. Also, how did Europe break off from Asia? Isn't this just Eurasia? I can see North and South America because of the narrowness of the Panama isthmus, but the old, so-called Iron Curtain is a pretty wide connector. In Greek, the Anatolian peninsula was simply called the East (place where the Sun rises).
>>toponym of the mind<<
To say, eurocentric?
>Eurasia.
Yes, I'm on board with this - how a jumped up little peninisula sticking off the butt-end of Asia gets to call itself a continent escapes me. I did read somewhere that, at least before the Suez canal was formed, Euafrasia was also a valid alternative.
As for Central America, I once saw a documentary that looked into its origins as an island that drifted into place between the two separate continents of Nth and Sth America. If this is true, then the Americas certainly have a valid claim to being continents, unlike Europe.
I believe there's separate continental plates forming Europe and Asia, not that that's the reason for the separate names, but.
Where's the border then between the two smooshed up plates? Roughly? Maybe that's why they/we won't let Russia into NATO or Turkey into the EU ...
'At's a good question, nuncle. My comment has nothing to back it up but a poorly written, faded note in my JDM®.
>>where's the border<<
To hazard a guess, those self-same urals. That would place Russia (tho' not Siberia) well within the NATO's 'toponymic' territory.
>>before the Suez Canal<<
I didn't realize it was that deep ;-)
Believe me, Dave, it ain't.
wrenching the thread (amidst much internal strife) back on topic:
"Middle East" is not a completely settled term, but using the most common definition of the term, it includes Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, and the disputed territories of Palestine including the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights of Syria.
Sometimes the term "Middle East" is taken to include Turkey and Cyprus, although both Turks and Cypriots assert that they are part of Europe and not the Middle East. The list of countries discussed in the context of Middle East is occasionally extended, due to strong cultural, economic and political relationships to include Morocco, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Afghanistan and even Iran and Pakistan.
One of the problems with the term "Middle East" is its perceived Eurocentrism. The region is only "to the east" from the perspective of Europe. To an Indian, it lies to the west; to a Russian, it lies to the south. There is also a problem with the word "Middle." What is the Middle East in the middle of?
The answer to this lies in the older term "Near East." Before the First World War, "Near East" was used in Europe to refer to the Balkans and the Ottoman Empire, while "Middle East" refered to Persia, Afghanistan and sometimes Central Asia, Turkestan and the Caucasus. ("Far East" referred to countries such as Malaysia and Singapore.) With the disappearance of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, "Near East" fell out of use, the "Middle East" came to be applied to the re-emerging countries of the Arab World.
The ambiguity of the term "Middle East" annoys some geographers, who have tried to popularise South-West Asia as an alternative, with little success. "Arab World" is used in some contexts, but it excludes peoples such as the Israelis, the Iranians and the Kurds who are not Arabs. In some ways the ambiguity of "Middle East" is an advantage, since it can be defined in a number of ways.
©Wikipedia
"Arab World" is used in some contexts, but it excludes peoples such as the Israelis, the Iranians and the Kurds who are not Arabs.
Hate to gainsay Wikipedia, but the differences between the Hamites and the Semites are only cultural ....
From where I'm sitting, of Troy, you're living in it. And for me, the Far East is so far east it's west. In fact, I would guess that there are places in the Far East that are closer to me than you are... so my answer is "Maybe it's all a matter of perspective."
Where's the border then between the two smooshed up plates? Roughly?Maybe this will help:
http://www.odsn.de/odsn/services/paleomap/animation.htmlIt's cool animation, at any rate.
Kinda puts paid to the separate plates thangie in my JDM®.
here's more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangaeaand another animation similar to the first, but for you sailors from the south...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangaea
... and what about the Japhthites? Linguistic terms actually, or at least when they were coined.
Wikipedia is good, but it's only as infallible as its contributors.
There is also a problem with the word "Middle."
Many years ago, while shopping in Korea, I came across a map of the world, printed in China, which featured China in the middle. I bought it as a reminder that there are more ways than one to view the world.
we have a great map in our school office which show the world <scare quotes>upside down</scare quotes>. all the labels are correctly orientized, and I believe the Atlantic Ocean is in the center. some kids just don't get it. some adults complain, too... sheesh.
makes sense, Mandarin for China is zhong guo 'middle country'.
From eta's link:
Eurasia refers to the combined land mass of Europe and Asia. Eurasia is alternatively considered to be a continent, or a supercontinent composed of the continents of Europe and Asia.
Due to the cultural differences between Asia and Europe, the historical tradition is to consider them separate continents. (This is controversial, as many historians perceive much of South and West Asia as historically closer to Europe than to East Asia). The earth sciences, with a more precise definition of continent, more frequently consider Eurasia to be a continent in and of itself.
and mediterranian means?
yes, near, middle and far east are eurpeon centric words, --but then we are speaking a european language, last time i checked.
we could substitute near asia, mid asia, and far asia, --which is still pretty damn far from you fiberbabe...
or even west asia, mid asia, and east asia, just as we divide europe, a much smaller land mass into eastern and western europe.
--and i have seen a french map that included most of europe, --and half of the atlantic ocean, and smack dab in the middle, of map, france, in all its glory! its pretty common now days.
in the middle ages, jerusalam was the center point of most european (christian european) maps. Rome might have been the were the pope lived (most of the time) but the center of the world was jerusalam.
>>which is still pretty damn far from you, fiberbabe<<
I remember reading once, when Japan was trying to woo Chile into a [free] trade relationship and away from one with the US, that 'they' said, and I pararaphrase, ' if it weren't for the ocean between us, we'd practically be neighbors.'
***
as to 'eurocentric,' I only got on it in response to jheem's abstract veiling, 'toponomy of the mind,' which I'm still puzzling over. A disorientatilizing China at the center of an upside down world is fine by me. Really. ;)
as to 'eurocentric,' I only got on it in response to jheem's abstract veiling, 'toponomy of the mind,' which I'm still puzzling over. A disorientatilizing China at the center of an upside down world is fine by me. Really. ;)
Oh, come now. I speak English, too. I used the term toponym cuz le's face it, how often do ya get to use that word. Everybody does this. Let's go down/up to the City. N'est-ce pas?
>>how often do you get to use that word<<
And thanks for it. It's a very good word.
***
As to of troy's original question, I can't think of one. But it does occur to me that, in the case of the 'near East,' it's the toponym and not the topo that has been lost -- as in Atlantis or, if that doesn't suit you, Krakatoa or New Orleans.
did 'near east' fall out of favor? is it part of some subtle political correctness that i missed?
If the "near east" fell out of favor, de Troy, it is only because it got too close for comfort.
It may be politically incorrect to say "near east", but it will always be politically porrect to say it.
>>>>we have a great map in our school office which show the world <scare quotes>upside down</scare quotes>. all the labels are correctly orientized, and I believe the Atlantic Ocean is in the center. some kids just don't get it. some adults complain, too... sheesh.
I have a map like that eta. (thank you Cap bec-bec) People who look at it don't complain, but they do get un uneasy feeling about Hudson's Bay.
It looks like it is going to get emptied out of all its water. I think it's a psychological/emotional thing. It looks like a cup, you turn a cup upside-down and it empties out, so the Bay will empty out if North is brought to the bottom.
Some Ithacans of my acquaintance once sent me a globe that must be standard issue for US public schools. At least, I'm assuming so, since it would explain much about the average USn's grasp of geography.
there was a place called the near east. it included the countries ... on the mediterranian.
I know what happened to the "Near East", de Troy. They couldn't market it as a destination ... so they renamed it "Club Med".
"Club Med" put the "Near East" back on the map.
"Swatch" did the same thing for Switzerland.