at a church staff meeting yesterday, we had a short discussion wondering about this word, and also it's relationship to words such as orthodox and paradox.

what say the board?

I say dek-

http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE77.html

Ant's grateful for your dek - what a fascinating family of words from this root.

damn decent of you, Fald! great stuff. wish I understood half of it, or maybe even a tenth...

Dear etaoin: Doxology is from a root meaning praise.
The othetr two are from a root meaning teaching or opinion.
I always like the Doxology. Only four lines, and I could head for home. Praise be.....

Many church people think that the last verse of the hymn text "Awake, my Soul, and with the Sun, written by Thomas Ken in the 17th century, IS "The Doxology." Here is that text:

Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow;
Praise Him, all creatures here below;
Praise Him above, ye heavenly host;
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

But there are many other doxologies, any one of which might be a legitimate candidate for being called "The Doxology."

For example, the last bit of the Lord's Prayer is its doxology:

"For Thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen" (Matthew 6:13)

For another example, in Roman Catholic prayer, the following is considered "The Doxology":

Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto. Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.

... or in English (which presumably God translates back into Latin in His head) ...

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

The Greek Orthodox use the term to refer to yet another hymn altogether.

It rarely makes sense to say/write "The Doxology" without explaining which one is in mind.

Well, thanks, Fr. Steve. I had never heard the Kent doxology, and I know that the famous Lord's Prayer doxology is an add-on of dubious canonicity, now missing from many more modern translations, including the RSV. The doxologies I am most familiar with are those that close each book of the Psalms, at Psalms 41, 72, 89, 106 and 150.

The doxologies I am most familiar with are those that close each book of the Psalms, at Psalms 41, 72, 89, 106 and 150.

An excellent further example!

which presumably God translates back into Latin in His head

Into Hebrew. It's into Hebrew which He translates it back in His head.

I think the thing marked "Doxology" in the Catholic missal (not with me at the moment) is the part at the end of the Eucharistic Prayer:

Through him, with him, in him,
In the unity of the Holy Spirit,
All glory and honour is yours almighty Father,
Forever and ever.

Followed hot on the heels by the Great Amen (not to be confused with the Mediocre Amen).

the words we use were written by a Unitarian-Universalist minister, Horace Westwood, and sung to the tune of Old Hundredth:

"Spirit of truth, of life, of power,
we bring ourselves as gifts to thee,
oh, bind our hearts this sacred hour,
in faith, and hope, and charity."

though our services usually last more like an hour 15, or even an hour and a half...

How does the first line scan, eta? And there's yet a third set of words to Old Hundredth:

"All creatures that on earth do dwell
Sing to the Lord with cheerful voice
...

(What's the rest? Faldage has lost my hymnal so I'm typing this from memory.)

It's into Hebrew which He translates it back in His head

Not Aramaic?

How does the first line scan, eta?

poorly.

Spi-rit of life..., blah, blah, ..of pow'r(one sylabble...)

The origin meaning praise seems to fit all of the above.
except possibly the "blah, blah, of pow'r"

except possibly the "blah, blah, of pow'r"

nah. we're UU's. that works, too.

Here you go, Anna; from the United Methodist Hymnal:
1. All people that on earth do dwell,
sing to the Lord with cheerful voice.
Him serve with mirth, his praise forth tell;
come ye before him and rejoice.

2. Know that the Lord is God indeed;
without our aid he did us make;
we are his folk, he doth us feed,
and for his sheep he doth us take.

3. O enter then his gates with praise;
approach with joy his courts unto;
praise, laud, and bless his name always,
for it is seemly so to do.

4. For why! the Lord our God is good;
his mercy is forever sure;
his truth at all times firmly stood,
and shall from age to age endure.



Here's a link to a history of Old Hundredth, for those who are interested:
http://www.webedelic.com/church/doxolf.htm

Why do I remember a completley different set of lyrics following "All people that on Earth do dwell"?

Thank you, Jackie!! And I'll look at your link in a bit. It could be that each denomination has tweaked the words a little bit (well, in the U.U.'s case, a *lot), because I remember "creatures" (Presbyterian upbringing) and Faldage apparently remembers different following lines (Congregational unbringing).

creatures

I thought the "people" sounded funny.

From a multi-denominational site:
"All people that on earth do dwell,
Sing to the Lord with cheerful voice.
Him serve with mirth, His praise forth tell;
Come ye before Him and rejoice."

From a Lutheran one:
"All People that on Earth Do Dwell"

That's not to say that some hymnals haven't changed words, of course. There IS a hymn that starts out, "All creatures of our God and king", and of course, "All creatures great and small".

Now I remember it with an aabb rhyme pattern and ending with
…ye heavenly host
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Well, that's the one Father Steve proffered:

Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow;
Praise Him, all creatures here below;
Praise Him above, ye heavenly host;
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Father Steve proffered

D'oh!

We need WW, here.

For the music and slightly different words go to: http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/a/a142.html

Bingley

remind me not to have my speakers turned up quite so loudly next time...

Don't have your speakers turned up quite so loudly next time.

Bingley

thank you.

I works just as well to turn down your hearing aid.

that doesn't help the rest of the house at 1 in the morning...

Do we gather then that they didn't

enter then your gates with praise,
approach with joy your courts unto;
praise, laud, and bless your Name always?


Bingley

Does anyone care what it is in Italian? Ever since reading those English words yesterday I've been humming it, but my brain keeps substituting the Italian words...

Noi canteremo gloria a te (We sing glory to you)
Padre che dai la vita (Father who gives us life)
Dio d'immensa caritá (God of immense charity)
Trinita infinita (Infinite trinity)

Do we gather then that they didn't

no, on this occasion, they didn't.

Dio d'immensa carità


I love the sound of those Italian words that end in tà - much more euphonious than their English ty equivalents, IMHO.

much more euphonious

both when spoken and sung. I agree.

now if I only didn't have hang-ups about the whole male-gender God thang...

now if only I didn't have hang-ups about the whole male-gender God thang

No matter if you have hangups. She understands.

I love the sound of those Italian words that end in tà - much more euphonious than their English ty equivalents, IMHO.

And much easier to sing !

"He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart." [Psalm 91:4]

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. [Matthew 23:37]

There are three doxologies currently listed in the 1990 Presbyterian hymnal, published out of Louisville, KY, hi, Jackie.

First version, #591 [I've never heard this one sung in church]

Praise God, from whom all blessings flow;
Praise Christ, all people here below;
Praise Holy Spirit evermore;
Praise Triune God, whom we adore.
Amen.

#592 [as mentioned in someone's post above]
Praise God, from whom all blessings flow;
Praise Him, all creatures here below;
Praise Him above, ye heavenly host;
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Amen.

#593 is like #592, but there are seven Amens.

In the Presbyterian church, the "Glory be to the Father" mentioned in a post above isn't referred to as the Doxology, but as the Gloria Patri--and there are quite a few versions of it in the hymnal.

Edit:

I just checked the index and there are quite a few other doxologies I've played in services, but never realized they were doxologies:

'All Praise to Thee, My God, This Night'--really lovely;

'Come, Holy Spirit, Our Souls Inspire'

'Creator of the Stars of Night'

'Of the Father's Love Begotten'

'What Star Is This, with Beams So Bright'

...I admit that I've never studied church music formally, so it's very interesting to see that hymns we sing have been classified by the church as doxologies--beyond the one we sing faithfully every week: #592.

Cool, DubDub--thanks! I didn't know the Presbyterians published from here, but it makes sense: their headquarters are here. It was neat, when they were trying to decide where to relocate: our mayor put out an invitation, and thousands of people turned out to show that we wanted them. I believe the tape of that gathering was one of the things that convinced them to come here, after they had all but decided on somewhere else.

I'm a little out of the loop, but I think there are a couple of different groups with their own synods, etc, and one of those groups is based in Richmond?

Anyway, I still haven't found my "All creatures..." words and apparently WW's hymnal doesn't include that version. But, to quote Dave Barry, "I am not making this up."

Oh, my hymnal does include the "Old Hundredth"--in several versions. It simply isn't identified as one of the 'doxologies' in any of the several indexes in the hymnal. Your "Old Hundredth," AnnaS, is in both the 1990 Louisville edition and the 1955 Philadelphia edition I have here at home--the lyrics from both are:

All people that on earth do dwell,
Sing to the Lord with cheerful voice;
Him serve with mirth, His praise forth tell,
Come ye before Him and rejoice.

Know that the Lord is God indeed;
Without our aid He did us make;
We are His folk, He doth us feed,
And for His sheep He doth us take.

O enter then His gates with praise;
Approach with joy His courts unto;
Praise, laud, and bless his name always,
For it is seemly so to do.

For why? The Lord our God is good.
His mercy is forever sure;
His truth at all times firmly stood,
And shall from age to age endure.

Thanks, WW. Indeed, that's one of the ones Jackie put up (the first verse). But I'm looking for "creatures." I'm *sure that's how we sang it when I was a kid.... or am I totally losing it?

Nope. No creatures in the Old Hundredth I copied out above. At least in the two editions I have here at the farm. I'll check on Sunday in one other edition I have up at Concord Presbyterian. You're not thinking of "All Creatures of Our God and King" by any chance? Maybe conflating the lines from the two hymns? Or maybe conflating the lines from the 'other' Old Hundredth, the Doxology itself, #592, in which the lyrics are as cited above: 'Praise Him all creatures here below...'

I will look on Sunday, however, to see whether the Old Hundredth above in one other hymnal I've seen up at church might have the version you're thinking of.

You're right, WW. I musta conflated two Old Hundredths. Thanks for putting my mind to rest.

AnnaS: (Without checking my book) we sing "All creatures that on earth do dwell", but we're Catholic. I don't know if that makes a difference to you, but I find we often sing songs that (a) no one else knows, or (b) have different words than the Protestants' songs. FWIW

Bean! OK, now we're back to square one. Thanks for letting me know.

Ain't that the purpose of doxologies?

>Ain't that the purpose of doxologies?

All this talk of praise (or should that be prays?) reimnds me of a neat summary I just now came up with. I'm going to see if maybe I can do something with it, perhaps build it into a poem or summat:

He prayeth best, who loveth best, All things both great and small

Is it any good? D'ya reckon it's worth working on some more?

Yes! It's worth working--and it sounds very familiar. All creatures great and small--that sentiment, familiar and so true, except for maybe regarding snakes. (Just kidding--really.)

Thanks, WW, I will work on it. I hav to confess, though, it's not acytually mine. Some bony old geezer collared me on my out of church and started ranting at me. That bit's all I really remember.

except for maybe regarding snakes

Albatross ~ buy yer Albatross!