This is probably more a general knowledge than a language knowledge question, but can anybody tell me what the phrase 'empty calories' is supposed to mean? And does it, at all, have any substantive meaning?

I ask this because, as far as I am aware, a calorie is a calorie - a capacity to do work, a unit of energy. If it is empty, what is it empty of? Not energy, for sure. If it is not empty, what is it that we expect to fill it? Water? Crystals? The Holy Spirirt?

Nonplussed-and-perplexed-about-'diets' in London

>>can anybody tell me what the phrase 'empty calories' is supposed to mean

Simple sugars or fats that don't provide any nutritional value would be empty calories. Protiens or complex carbohydrates would be the prefered (full?) calories.

>> a calorie is a calorie

Yes, this is true. The issue is how your body uses the calorie. (store it or burn it)

>empty calories

I wonder if it relates to either:
(i) Foods like celery which are said to use more calories in eating and digesting than they contain.
(ii) Foods like sweets which provide calories but do not make any other useful contribution to the diet, eg fibre, vitamins, protein.

Yes, as xara and Jo (ii) said. My favorite form of empty calories is beer.

>do not make any other useful contribution to the diet, eg fibre, vitamins, protein.<
This is correct, one should add "mineral salts and trace elements". At the beginning though, the term had a more "vitalistic" pitch, referring generally to highly refined foodstuffs. It has gone a bit out of fashion, after the "fun aspect" of eating has come to the fore again, and children cram themselves with sweets...

children cram themselves with sweets...

And adults cram themselves with beer, wine, and sausages,
especially when free...

but AnnaStriphic, beer doesn't have empty calories--Its a reasonable good source of Vitamin B, and Niacin..
and while not iron rich, it has more iron than most many foods, so that a pub crawl could be a cure for anemia! it could, however, lead to the medical problems to use beer as your prime source of iron.

I believe that it is the vitamins and iron that are the basis of Guinesses old claim that it "is good for you." Certainly our family doctor on Northampton recommended Guiness as a painless antidote to mild anaemia.

I did wonder why he hadn't recommended Mild, but decided not to be Bitter about it. The main problem, we found, was that Guiness makes you so Stout that you need a Porter for your luggage, even when it isn't Lager than you used to be able to carry.

I understand that chocolate has many virtues. The dentist told me that it had fluoride and wasn't as bad for teeth as chewy sticky things. It lifts the spirits too.

chocolate -- lifts the spirits too

Personally, I prefer the forearm and elbow for that job.

"Guiness is good for you"

Helen, your point is well made and entirely pertinent. Beer provides much more than mere nutritional requirements, too. In fact I was reminded earlier today that it's important to keep your spare tyre inflated.

But if we're just talking nutrition, I'm reliably informed
that you can get all the nutrition you need from Guinness and tomato juice. Probably wouldn't recommend mixing them in the same glass, though.


Chocolate lovers note that munching a few chunks alongside a pint (or ten) of Guinness is meant to be a heavenly experience.

Fisk
(c/o Marketing Dept, Guinness & Sons, Dublin)

Yeah, its to bad I don't like beer, and as for Guinness, UGH! Potatoes and dairy food will give you complete nutrition, too, so skip the bangers, and just have the mash--with lots of butter.
Chocolate isn't a bad idea though, USDA recommends 6 to 8 servings of fruits, and coco beans are are a fruit... so i guess a well balanced diet includes chocolate. or at least a well balanced American (US) diet.

I always thought that a well balanced diet was when, in my student days, I worked part-time in a restaurant and carried food to the table on a tray held high in the air on the splayed fingers of one hand - - -

Well that's because diet and regimens are very different on either side of the Atlantic.
This side of the Atlantic, regimens would more often be use to define your exercise schedule, not your food intake. Diet is usually a plan for food intake, especially for limiting the same, or for some unusual habit of food intake ("Her diet consisted exclusively of twinkies and diet coke!") So a well balanced diet wouldn't be carried to you on a tray, especially not in a restaurant!
What you want to be balanced on the tray is Food! comestibles! libations! A restaurant is no place for a diet!

>So a well balanced diet wouldn't be carried to you on a tray, especially not in a restaurant!

I think you should ask Rhubarb in which cheek his/her tongue was when he/she was carrying the diets in question.

Hell, Jo, you keep your tongue straight ahead when waiting on - one false move with your tongue in your cheek and you've bitten it orf.
The only time you can get away with silver serving whilst blood is dripping from your mouth is at a Halloween Dinner!

>I think you should ask Rhubarb in which cheek his/her tongue was when he/she was carrying the diets in question.

I love the puns and word play, the tongue in cheek, the "nod, nod, wink, wink", but I am total helpless. I am literal!
I love best the literal comments–TEd Remington's comments about still pease in the pease porridge thread,
http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=5989&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=1&vc=1 , and so on.

I get the puns, well most of them, I speak American English, but also know a good deal of english English. Its easy to learn it, there are plenty of opportunites to read, (the Economist), and listen to, (lots of BBC broadcasts are available in NY)that varient.

Sorry Helen

It is a very British form of humour and one that doesn't always cross the Atlantic too well. Several friends have struggled when they have moved over here, they said that they had to leard irony as a second language. It's even harder when you throw in the dead-pan expressions that people use when talking such rubbish!

It is a very British form of humour and one that doesn't always cross the Atlantic too well.

Does anybody know why that is? The Britsh love of irony, and "tongue-in-cheek" humour, thrives in most other former colonies, why not among the tea-haters?

>why not among the tea-haters?

Probably religion. The Pilgrim Fathers weren't exactly known for having a good laugh were they? After that I suppose they were too busy winning the West and fighting all those grizzlies to have time to make fun of it all.

Jackie said something a while ago about how nice people are to each other - I suppose as we said in another thread, irony may be just too cruel for some people's tastes.

I have known a number of Americans with absolutely delicious senses of irony. I must say that part of the impact may have been due precisely to my prejudice - that I didn't expect Americans to be able to get it, or prepetrate it. But it is absolutely brilliant when they do. I have long since given up the notion that Americans don't 'do' irony. It is simply that perhaps it is so subtle that even we Brits don't get it!

. I have long since given up the notion that Americans don't 'do' irony.

A nice reminder of the dangers of generalising, thanks. I'm sure you will acknowledge certain "national traits" in humour, though. For example, from what little I know of the subject, it seems that most American males find "The Three Stooges" hilarious - an unfunnier bunch I could scarcely imagine. Now that's cruel humour!

I have known a number of Americans with absolutely delicious senses of irony

How nice to know that not everyone thinks we're dull.

Ah, I have found the word that has been niggling at the back of my mind for the past hour....

English (UK) humour is always referred to as DRY here, as in "he has a dry sense of humour". French people DO NOT get it and can be quite insulted by comments that are meant to be jokes. Having been raised in a fully bilingual household, I understand both English and French humour (maybe that’s why I am always smiling), but the difference runs deep.

Generally (don’t chew my head off, I said generally) English people tend to be more reserved so the humour is harder to spot for French people, who are known for their “joie de vivre” (joy of living) and exuberance. When we say something with a straight face, it’s usually time to sit down and pay attention ‘cause it’s serious.

And NO, French Quebecers are not like the French from France, we do not idolize Jerry Lewis. He is relegated to the same category as the Three Stooges (and what are they about??)

And who said the States are dull...we laugh at you all the time (ooooo, I'm in trouble for that one)

How nice to know that not everyone thinks we're dull.

Dull?! How could anywhere that could give the world this - http://slate.msn.com/Features/bushisms/bushisms.asp or this http://www.xmission.com/~mwalker/DQ/quayle/qq/hall.of.fame.html ever be considered dull?
An interesting aside on the matter of differences between national preferences for humour: I heard an interview on the radio with a professor from the London School of Economics. He had done a study of jokes targetting different ethnicities/nationalities - and said that the only instance he could find where there appeared to be a vein of real hatred under the humour was in the jokes told on opposite of the Tasman about those across the water.

the jokes told on opposite of the Tasman about those across the water.

ULP! WHICH water??

I didn't go to your urls, because it looks like they're both about political figures: b-o-r-i-n-g.
In fact, I looked at the second title and thought it should be the "hall of lame".

Pssst--my comment about dullness was intended to be irony.

political figures: b-o-r-i-n-g.

Then you were probably right to give them a miss, miss. But you did therefore miss this keynote speech:

“I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."—Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000

I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully

Yes indeed; neither causes terminal indigestion in the other.

s/he has a dry sense of humour

We say that too, bel, and often as a compliment!
"Deadpan" is another word for it, but that doesn't quite capture the full spectrum (which is surprisingly broad).

I don't think most Brits (sorry, English people) would take offense at being called reserved, though I'm certain that we're a lot less reserved than we used to be.

But for some fine examples of English reserve, check out the Jane Austen (usually Merchant Ivory film) type of scenario - huge amounts of importance/passion hanging on a potential suitor using one word rather than another with almost identical meaning.

I think it's all about increasing the value by prolonging the build-up. And the innuendo may be entirely appropriate!

Any idea what a good word would be to describe the way in which Bush seems to use the language? Neither malapropism nor spoonerism seem quite adequate. There is a sort of risible serendipity to the way he makes his words work for him - you can almost see what he's aiming for, and how he contrives, through choosing a different word, to come up with the surreal. Humptyism? Humpty-dumptyism? Logosurrealism? Any other thoughts?

cheer

the sunshine warrior

>"The Three Stooges" hilarious

Similarly, I can't see anything funny in it.

Although I am proud of many of our "cultural" exports, I could never see why Benny Hill crossed the pond - I curl up in pain when I see him!

I'm always terminally unamused by slapstick and the kind of humour where people pretend to be incompetent (eg Frank Spencer, not sure if that was sent out across the world) makes me want to pick them up and tell them to get a grip ... aaaaagh Oh no, perhaps there is a disciplinarian trying to escape from the normally mild, composed being that I am!

In reply to:

---

I'm always terminally unamused by slapstick and the kind of humour where people pretend to be incompetent (eg Frank Spencer

---

I loved Some Mothers, I used to laugh to the point where friends and family would become seriously concerned about the health of my bronchial passages, (you've never heard me laugh), but Norman Wisdom always made me just want to curl up with embarrassment to the point where I would have to leave the room it hurt so much, and other "amusing" incompetents have a similar effect.

Bingley

how do you all feel about Cleese in "Fawlty Towers"? I think selected episodes were some of the funniest things I've ever seen on TV, and yet these same episodes are almost too painful to give a second viewing. (the "German" episode steps to mind.)

"the 3 stooges" are/is hilarious to the 9-year old american boy - everything else is nostalgia.

aaaaagh Oh no, perhaps there is a disciplinarian trying to escape from the normally mild, composed being that I am!

Jo--I pity anyone who tries to call you a disciplinarian!

I think the Three Stooges are horrible. Some of the funniest slapstick, to me, are the ones where the participants, each unaware of the other's activities, end up confronting each other. Some of the I Love Lucy episodes, for ex.

>Cleese in "Fawlty Towers

I think that John Cleese is a genius. I can just about watch re-runs of Fawlty Towers (sadly, I think there were only twelve episodes). I agree that some of it is wonderful and some (especially the "war" episode) is too painful to watch. Although the programme includes moments of pure slapstick it has a level of self awareness that helps the humour along (apologies if this analysis sounds pretentious). It seems to work on so many different levels that if one part of it is irritating there is another wonderful moment just around the corner.

>Jo--I pity anyone ...

Thanks Jackie (my only part-Cherokee friend in the whole world)- I owe you one!

"? I think selected episodes were some of the funniest things I've ever seen on TV, and yet these same episodes are almost too painful to give a second viewing. (the "German" episode steps to mind.)

I wasn't going to say this, but "You started it" -"Germans" was the very best of an excellent bunch, in my opinion. Like you, I find it almost painful to watch, but it is too funny not to. Although there were only twelve episodes made, the standard in each is so high that they have stood up well to the passing of twenty and more years. I can never look at a rat without thinking to myself "there's a Siberian Hamster", and the image of Cleese apoplectically beating a Mini with a branch makes me laugh even as I type this. Thanks for making me smile, tsuwm, just don't mention the war

Cleese apoplectically beating a Mini with a branch

Just the thought is enough to set me off, too - though it's the moose's head that really does it! Nooooo

<glass of water>
<deep breath>

"Germans" was even better than Monty Python's Cheese Shop (hey! Cleese too, quelle surprise). Though the "Gumby" version of the Cherry Orchard on Another Monty Python Record was a heck of a belly-clutcher.

Ummmm. Oh yes, humour!
Slapstick is brilliant as far as I'm concerned.
Benny Hill was more Slap & tickle, seaside humour, and hasn't weathered well.
As a kid I found Jerry Lewis absolutely hilarious, but that was minutes ago.

though it's the moose's head that really does it!

hhow do you like my Englessh? I learn eet from a boook!

And yes, Cheese Shop is right up there, especially the matter-of-fact, deadpan ending.

The Marx Brothers were American *waggling eyebrows*

The Marx Brothers were American *waggling eyebrows*

Thanks, Anna, you've reminded me to look out for their movies again - "A Day at the Races" is my favourite.

All right, I can't hide the shame anymore...MY all time favorite: Search for the Holy Grail (I know, I know, I’m getting old)

When King Arthur meets “Dennis” in the autonomous collective …. “you can’t expect to wield supreme executive power ‘cause some watery tart threw a sword at you. I mean, if I went around sayin’ I was the emperor just because some moistened bink had lobbed a scimitar at me they’d put me away”

It just slays me.

For those interested in a good Monthy Python page:

http://montypython.net/grailsounds.php3

Thanks for the Python link, bel - allow me to return the favour
http://www.driveway.com/share?sid=9f78513f.b7f36&name=Pythonesque&view=0

Along with clips from the Grail, it includes the song which should be Canada's (or at least BC's) anthem.

I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully
Yes indeed; neither causes terminal indigestion in the other.
Hi, Shona,
You say this with much assurance. Did you ever inquire among sharks?

>Did you ever inquire among sharks?

I have to remind you that Jackie doesn't like us to discuss politicians!

Jackie

Perhaps my favourite slapstick film/moment (as opposed to humour in general) has got to be Chaplin's Easy Street (have I got the name right?), with the entire window-upstairs-downstairs thing between Chaplin, the girl (Paulette Goddard?) and the policeman.

One for my younger days though... slapstick doesn't quite do it for me any more

cheer

the sunshine warrior

< Easy Street>

Yes, Shanks, Easy Street (made in 1917) is still a very funny half-hour. Edna Purviance (what a fascinating surname!) played the missionary; Paulette Goddard didn't work with Chaplin until Modern Times in 1935.

Our film society had a double bill of Chaplin (The kid plus Modern Times) a couple of months ago. A wonderful evening of fun and nostalgia.

<Bush … spoonerism>

I'm sure that Dr Spooner would refer to the two candidates as Gush and Bore.

There goes any reputation I may have tried to maintain for infallibility. Thanks for the info, though. Was it the same actress (Edna Purviance) in all his early classics (Gold Rush et al)?

neither causes terminal indigestion in the other.
>Did you ever inquire among sharks?

Well indeed, wsieb, if you don't do as mummy said - chop your food up properly and chew it at least 200 times - you get what's coming to you..

refer to the two candidates as Gush and Bore

Oh, paulb, that's GREAT! How perfectly appropriate!

*waggles eyebrows* - Yes Auntie, Max, I meant to mention the Marx Bros, and in particular Day at the Races. Seen time and again, and still enjoyed..

..but nothing like as much as Holy Grail bel!
"Come back here you coward, I'll bite your legs off!"
"What is the flight velocity of an unladen swallow?"
"It's a rabbit!"
Heck, you and Max have provided references to the originals and much more anyway. Thanks so much for that.


This is always dangerous territory, where it's so easy to end up on a major YART that (as Jo implied elsewhere) consists largely of quoting entire episodes word for word!

Maybe we should set up a Monty P thread, which we can build up, and to which we can always refer, at times like this.
Only it would be a Gilliam-type monster of a thread.

>I'm sure that Dr Spooner would refer to the two candidates as Gush and Bore.

That makes me wonder if voting for Nader would help to get rid of all of the sex and violence in the race (Bush and Gore)

PLOPPPPP (the sound of TEd hitting the gutter yet again)

>Cheese Shop is right up there

Cleese and Palin were so good together; viz. The Pet Store ("This parrot is deceased!").
I think Cleese turned 61 today... [aaaaarrrrgggh!!]

sex and violence

The Remington Close Shaver:

"I was so impressed - I bought the Company!"

Oh Max, you've made my day. Thanks for the link.

<infallibility>

Not to worry, Shanks, I was using reference books, not my memory.

Miss Purviance was mainly in Chaplin's shorts (please don't take this the wrong way!) plus The kid and Limelight (not as star). She died in 1958. The leading ladies in his other features were Georgia Hale (The gold rush), Merna Kennedy (The circus), Virginia Cherrill (City Lights), Paulette Goddard (The great dictator), Martha Raye (Monsieur Verdoux), Claire Bloom (Limelight), Dawn Addams (A king in New York) and Sophia Loren (A countess from Hong Kong).

Miss Purviance was mainly in Chaplin's shorts

Why, paulb, I am delighted to have you join me
in the gutter!

< Why, paulb, I am delighted to have you join me
in the gutter>

so, Jackie, should we call ourselves 'wallowers'?

paulb, I'd wallow with you any time!
Oh, you meant as a group name, didn't you?
Ah well, another dream gone down the (gutter) drain!

I don't know--I think I kind of like it. It sounds a bit
like wadders, reminding us of being AWAD-ers, and we do
love to wallow in our assertions, semantics, and rhetoric.

In reply to:

---

should we call ourselves 'wallowers'?

---

I refuse to live with the hint that I may owe the wall anything. Dammit I pay my debts and don't you dare suggest otherwise...

<wallowers>

Well, er, actually Jackie, this was more a name for the select group of us who've made it to the gutter.

And feel free to join us, Shanks, there's no charge!

Well, er, actually Jackie, this was more a name for the select group of us who've made it to the gutter

HOORAY!

I'd sooner be a wallower than a wallflower.