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Posted By: sfordin Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/16/00 04:29 PM
I've hit a bit of a stumbling block in the illimitable search for words that can be used to hammer nails, describe the upper lips of chickens, explain tautological inconsistencies, fill bowls with rice, and perform other day-to-day household chores faster and for less money. Specifically, can anyone suggest a good antonym for onomatopoeia?

One possibility is heterological, as used in Grelling's Paradox:

"If a homological adjective is one that is true of itself,
e.g., "polysyllabic", and a heterological adjective is one
which is not true of itself, e.g., "bisyllabic", then what
about "heterological?" Is it heterological or not?"


Another possibility is anamimesis, but I rejected this with its close relation anonomatopoeia because neither really addresses the roots of onomatopoeia; onomato (name) + poi (make). To be absent a name is not quite the point.

Perhaps moving the ana part in front of of the poi part -- onomatoanapoeia -- might be closer. I think the problem here is that onomatopoeia itself is rather a conceptual leap from its etymological roots. I expect if
there is an antonym, it will, like most antonyms, be constructed from different roots.

Finally, a couple of points to consider:

1) Should the antonym be for a word that doesn't sound like what it means, or a word that sounds like what it doesn't mean?

2) What if the word sounds like its antonym?

Thanks for any help!

Regards,

Scott

Posted By: belMarduk Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/16/00 09:18 PM
Allo Sfordin

I don't know if there is an anotnym for onomatopoeia. Is this not simply a word used to describe a certain manner in which a thing is named as in Cuckoo to name a bird that cuckoos.

Which brings up the question...does everything HAVE to have an antonym?

Posted By: sfordin Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/16/00 10:10 PM
Two points:

First, this question came up when a co-worker asked me to explain what the name of one of my workstations, anmut, meant. I told him it's a German word that means "grace, harmony in movement," among other things. He replied that it doesn't sound like it should mean that. He thought the word sounded, to an ear accustomed to English, too clunky, definitely ungraceful. He asked what the word is for something that doesn't sound like what it means, thus condemning me to this search for an antonym to onomatopoeia...

Second, your question about whether everything must have an antonym raises some really interesting (to me) points from philosophical and logical angles. Jumping immediately to mind are concepts like yin and yang, night and day, the binomial theorem, matter and antimatter. Is it possible for something to exist without some complementary non-existence? Is zero the opposite of one, and if so, is zero also the opposite of two? If negative one is the opposite of one, then where does zero fit in? What is the opposite of zero?

Whew! To quote Mr. Gumby, "My brain hurts!" Time to go hug the kids.

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/16/00 11:28 PM
My brain hurts, too, so I'll tackle the only bit I'm able to wrap it around: the German language.

German is not noted for its melodiousness. "Anmut" ain't bad at all, relatively speaking. Take a look at "Gemütlichkeit": the quality of being cozy, homey, welcoming.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/17/00 12:11 AM
>too clunky, definitely ungraceful

as Anna said (circumspectly), that sums up German quite well.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/17/00 02:59 AM
but seriously, I can't answer your question; I lean towards Anna's response. but I would like to respond to a couple of other points...

Douglas Hofstadter says in "Godel, Escher, Bach..." that two words were coined specifically to talk about Grelling's paradox; here's the quote: "Divide the adjectives in English into two categories: those which are self-descriptive, such as "pentasyllabic", "awkwardnessful", and "recherche", and those which are not, such as "edible", "incomplete", and "bisyllabic". Now if we admit "non-selfdescriptive" as an adjective, to which class does it belong? If it seems questionable to include hyphenated words, we can use two terms invented specially for this paradox: autological [not homological] (= self-descriptive), and heterological (= non-self-descriptive). The question then becomes: "Is heterological heterological?" Try it!"

this is one of Hofstadter's examples of a strange loop (a thread I started elsewhen which went nowhere ;)

also, isn't the opposite of zero infinity, in mathematical terms?

Posted By: Jackie Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/17/00 03:10 AM
Non-self-descriptive is self-descriptive.
Now my brain hurts.

Posted By: Bingley Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/17/00 05:00 AM
In reply to:

He thought the word sounded, to an ear accustomed to English, too clunky, definitely ungraceful.


David Crystal wrote an article in English Today called "Phonaesthetically Speaking", comparing which words sound beautiful in English, quite apart from their meaning. He came up with ten features, and the more of them a word had, the more beautiful the word sounded. The features were:

3+ syllables
stress on the first syllable
uses m
uses l
uses s, n, r, k, t, or d
doesn't use other consonants
3 or more different manners of articulation
only short vowels
more front vowels than centre or back vowels
more low than middle or high vowels

So, what words sound beautiful? What words sound beautiful but the meaning drags them down?

Bingley

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/17/00 07:30 AM
David Crystal wrote an article in English Today called "Phonaesthetically Speaking", comparing which words sound beautiful in English, quite apart from their meaning. He came up with ten features, and the more of them a word had, the more beautiful the word sounded. The features were:

3+ syllables
stress on the first syllable
uses m
uses l
uses s, n, r, k, t, or d
doesn't use other consonants
3 or more different manners of articulation
only short vowels
more front vowels than centre or back vowels
more low than middle or high vowels


Is there any chance of finding this article on the Web? Failing that, could you post some of the exmples he used? Phonaesthetics sounds fascinating (no pun intended), and I would love to learn more, especially as it seems to me to be a very subjective field. "Beauty is in the ear of the beholder."

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/17/00 08:27 AM
The problem is that if you define any term as not something else then you're really defining it as everything but that thing, and not just its polar opposite.

Only it's not really a problem, is it? More like close to the source of every paradox and pun, and most of what we find amusing, entertaining and enthralling.

You can't beat generalizations!

In fact, it's totally impossible.




Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/17/00 08:49 AM
So, what words sound beautiful? What words sound beautiful but the meaning drags them down?


Well, I think "onomatopoeia" sounds beautiful. Which would be my main argument against accepting "heterological" as its antonym, in fact.

Seems to me antonyms should, as polar opposites (see previous post) share a common nature. Yes, I know this appears to be a paradox, so off the top of me head, here are some examples: "optimistic" goes with "pessimistic" rather than "cynical". "Malevolent" goes with "benevolent" rather than "good". OK, not very good examples, but I'm rushed.

By the way, I also think "enantiodroma" and "serendipity" are beautiful. I confess I haven't checked them against Crystal's rules yet, but I suspect their appeal is as much in the meaning as the sound for me.

Agree with Max, phonaesthetics sounds fascinating!

Posted By: Bingley Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/17/00 10:24 AM
The article was in English Today, Vol. 11 No. 2 (the April 1995 issue) so those of you who have access to decent libraries can LIU. English Today is published by the Oxford University Press, and is supposed to be on the Internet, but last time I looked, admittedly some time ago) it was for those with institutional subscriptions only.

To summarise, he looked at lists which had appeared in various places of what words various writers or newspaper readers thought beautiful. He then did a statistical analysis of what sounds and word features appeared frequently in the lists and what didn't. The "rules" I posted earlier were the result. "Tremulous" is a word which scored 10 out of 10. "Alyssum" and "alumnus" scored 9/10 each. "Zoo" scored 0/10.



Bingley
Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/17/00 09:50 PM
also, isn't the opposite of zero infinity, in mathematical terms?

In mathematical terms the opposite of any number is itself on the negative side; therefore, the opposite of infinity would be negative infinity.

I would have to say that the opposite of zero is the existence of anything, whether it be positive or negative, but not any specific number.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/17/00 10:23 PM
okay, what about positive and negative zero then?

Posted By: belMarduk Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/18/00 12:58 AM
The Big Bang, the chicken or the egg, Shrödinger`s Cat. I think this topic falls under the same category. It seems to me that there are certain things that are rife with theories but cannot be proven. Aaak !

Posted By: wsieber Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 10/18/00 06:17 AM
Before risking another outbreak of brain-ache, let's try to be clear: the everyday sense of the term "opposite" has no place in mathematics. Some people here were using it in the sense of "complement" (set theory) others in the sense of "negation". And there is no "positive and negative zero" as far as I know. +-0 means "zero within the limits of error".

Posted By: emanuela opposite ... - 10/18/00 06:36 AM
>>also, isn't the opposite of zero infinity, in mathematical terms?

The "correct" term would be "inverse": roughly speaking we could say that
the inverse of 0 is infinity - it correspond to the fact that , dividing a given fixed (positive) number by another (positive) number becoming smaller and smaller, then the result is becoming bigger and bigger (i.e. goes to the infinity).
Emanuela

Posted By: tsuwm Re: opposite ... - 10/18/00 01:20 PM
yes, we have been using the word "opposite" very loosely hereabouts; it is more of an exacting problem in math(s), but is also problematical in linguistics! [see other threads]

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: opposite ... - 10/18/00 10:11 PM
Isn't the inverse of zero (one divided by zero) undefined?

Posted By: wsieber Re: opposite ... - 10/19/00 06:15 AM
>Isn't the inverse of zero (one divided by zero) undefined?<

That's right. And it's the undefined things that make us irresistibly scramble for definitions.






Posted By: FishonaBike Re: opposite ... - 10/19/00 11:36 AM
it's the undefined things that make us irresistibly scramble for definitions.

Never was a truer word spoken, wsieber!

The fact that, by definition, we can never eff the ineffable doesn't stop us trying.

And (thank <ineffable>) it never will.

Posted By: Jackie Re: opposite ... - 10/19/00 11:50 AM
it's the undefined things that make us irresistibly scramble for definitions.

True! I always want to know, in concrete terms, what everything is! For example, energy. I know it is a
"force", but--what is it??? I want to be able to touch it, to see it, to view it in its smallest, most precise, basic state of being. I want to know if it has an
odor, and whether I can hear it. And speaking of odor--how is it, exactly, that we can smell things? Do molecules of something delicious baking in the oven somehow slip out the openings and get drawn into our nostrils? Oh, I want to know!

Posted By: barbmiller Re: Antonym for onomatopoeia? - 08/11/08 03:20 PM
I tried to find an antonym for onomatopoeia and the only reference I could find on the web was this thread, which appears to have ended 8 years ago without a clear resolution. How could I not join a group of people who actually care about such things??? I feel the need to have such a word in our wonderful language. So, although I'm not particularly knowledgeable about greek and latin roots, I'll offer some suggestions and hope that others out there still care about this and we can come to a consensus and turn this figment into a real word.

I took the issues Scott raised as my starting points. So, my first premise about this word is that it should describe a word that sounds like what it doesn't mean (or more specifically like the opposite of what it means), rather than one that doesn't sound like what it means. The latter probably encompasses most words, and so it is less useful.

My second premise is that although it need not come from the same etymological roots, it would be helpful if it did in order to facilitate its incorporation into the language.

My third premise was that although it would be rich if it were an example of itself, it would not be helpful in incorporating it into the language. Also, if it were an example of onomatopoeia, that would not only facilitate incorporation, but would also be a delicious irony, since I don't think onomatopoeia is an example of itself.

Here are the roots I worked with:
anto, ante, counter, contra = opposite or against
son, phon/o = sound
nom, onoma, onym = name

And here are the resulting word ideas all in noun form only:

1. Antosonym or antesonym
2. Antosonoma or antesonoma
3. Antosonomoeia or antesonomoeia

4. Contrasonym or countersonym
5. Contrasonoma or countersonoma
6. Contrasonomoeia or countersonomoeia

7. Antophonym or antephonym
8. Antophonoma or antephonoma
9. Antophonomoeia or antephonomoeia

10. Contraphonym or counterphonym
11. Contraphonoma or counterphonoma
12. Contraphonomeia or counterphonomeia

OK, now my brain hurts.

All best,
Barbara
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