Our commando's implied an interesting byway. In colloquial UK English at least, the word 'knock' has been given some particular meanings in simple combination:
Knock off: to end work or disengage from a task
Knock out: to render senseless
Knockout: 'drop-dead gorgeous' (Guru has a boring 'strikingly attractive')
Knock up: to impregnate
Knock up: also, to wake factory or mine workers
(the task was given to a 'knocker-up')
Knock-off: an article manufactured as a cheap copy of the original
There are others, too - are these shared around the world, or do some of them have similar structures for quite different meanings? Does anyone have a particular favourite?
Knockdown is used in the expression 'knockdown and dirty fight'meaning the fight is a real doozy.
You may get 'knockers' as a response from a few gentlemen (well maybe not gentlemen)discribing the protruding parts of a woman's anatomy, since you mentioned knocking up and impregnating and all.
here's one that may only be familiar to wrestlin' fans:
slobberknocker - two or more big guys beating the hell out of each other
knockdown is also used for something that is easily disassembled into its component parts. Principally furniture, but it can also be used for a temporary building.
A knockabout is a small sailing vessel of some kind, when used as a noun. As an adjective it refers to clothing for knocking about in. Not usually made of sailcloth though :)
Knockwurst is saying bad things about German food.
Here in Oz "knock off" means to steal - could be a physical object or an idea (see Mav's previous "cheap copy" definition) , as well as his first meaning of finishing work, and also to defeat esp in a sporting competition.
"Knock it off" means "give it a rest", cease and desist.
A knocker is a person who constantly criticizes (knocks) someone or something, as well as the banging thingimmy on a front door for knocking up (waking, not impregnating!) the residents.
Glad to have you, belMarduk. Gee, I think this is the most intriguing newcomer's name for a long time! Would you care to enlighten us on how it came into being?
Knock on wood is a superstitious saying and/or action to ward off potential ill luck.
>Glad to have you, belMarduk.
Ah, Jackie, but if I told you that then wouldn't I be breaking the unwritten LIU rule I've seen a few newbies being chided about? I should tell you it is a composite of two words though.
Maverick, one more I thought of. We often use the expression "knock together" as in put together quickly. (eg I'll knock together a couple of samples to show your client). I don't know if this is common usage.
Jackie
I'm glad that you mentioned "knock on wood", I'd always half listened to the song, wondering what it meant. The usual expression here in the UK is "touch wood". When children use this expression the joke is to touch a friend's head (implying that it is wooden) - do you have the same joke?
More knocks:
When shops have a sale they often talk about "knockdown prices".
I think that the impregnate version of "knock up" became known in the UK during the war, when GI's were most amused by being "knocked up" in the morning.
To knock something up would be more likely here (I think) that knock something together (meaning a rough version or "mock up") although the latter may be coming into use to avoid the obvious innuendo.
I used to live near a place called Knockin in Shropshire. The local shop proudly displays its name above the door - "The Knockin Shop".
"The Knockin Shop"Hah! I thought we might get some good ones by knocking heads together.
A bit off-string, but this reminds me of a family joke in Kent - a nighboring village was called Loose, pronounced Looze, to the puzzlement of outsiders. So imagine the expresion on strangers' faces when they saw the sign for
Loose Womens' Institute 
Ah, Jackie, but if I told you that then wouldn't I be breaking the unwritten LIU rule I've seen a few newbies being chided about? I should tell you it is a composite of two words though.
Hrmph...grumble, grumble...can't believe you're going to make me work for it! Boy, some people!
I did acually spend time on the two-word theory before I asked, because it struck me that it was very easy to pull the name Mark out of those letters. But I couldn't come up with a last name that I was familiar with, which of course is not a real indication that I was wrong.
Mark Duble? Dubel? Blude and Lubed came to mind.
Some other possibilities: murk blade, bleak drum, dream bulk, blake drum. But I "doubt" that any of those are it.
Make blurd sounds like something meaningful, but--
hey! Who asked about homophones, anyway?
the expression 'knockdown and dirty fight'
also see this (brought up thro' another string!)
`I don't know what you mean by "glory,"' Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't--
till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for
you!"'
`But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice
objected.
`When _I_ use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful
tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor
less.'
> Hrmph...grumble, grumble...
"The time has come" the walrus said "to talk of many things"
Well, alright, mea culpa, I shouldn't be teasing folks on my first day out
. To make a long story short...bel is a designation that means <the god> (avid sci-fi fans will recognize it from the Belgariad series of books). Marduk is a dragon in ancient Chinese mythology (I also found out it also designates a god of darkness, maelstrom and the underworld - yikes!). No, no, I am not being vain...I adopted the name after a writing class, (many moons ago) when a teacher asked us to write a story about something we had on our person or in our purses. I happen to have a pewter dragon in my purse (now THAT is a long story) - et voila, belMarduk was created. I like it. And I'm sure there will never be a slew of them out there on the www as in Suzie25, Cutie546.
>brought up thro' another string!
you know, I was going to point out that (over here, at least) these are known as 'threads'; but it occurs to me that 'strings' might indeed be more apposite to our little corner of the universe -- bear with me here....
thread - something continuous or drawn out, as a) a train of thought b) a continuing element
but, in particle physics,
string - a hypothetical one-dimensional object that is infinitely thin
anyway, that's my theory.
-anne elk
I was recently re-reading "Mansfield Park" and came upon a usage of "knocked up" clearly meaning "tired". It was something like "We can walk farther along this path unless Fanny is too knocked up to continue." At least I hope it meant "tired". Perhaps this usage has become archaic?
knocked up = tired
could this be related to 'knackered'?
In reply to:
Marduk is a dragon in ancient Chinese mythology (I also found out it also designates a god of darkness, maelstrom and the underworld - yikes!).
Ermm, I think you'll find Marduk was a Babylonian god/dragon rather than a Chinese one.
Bingley
A big welcome, Jane, ESPecially for you! ;-)
I would construe the same meaning you did in that context.
I think you will LOVE this site!!!
you will LOVE this site!!!Do you actually
know this, Jackie - or is it just some strange intimation...
'strings' might indeed be more apposite to our little corner of the universe
Yes, tsuwm, I think you're right - definitely multi-layered, often twisted, and sometimes very knotted. Maybe this should be Knot, Knot - who's there!
Yes Bingley...at the time I found two references to Chinese mythology (on net) and recently one reference to Babylonian mythology (encyclopedia of Myths & Legends). I must admit I didn't check into it further since I've been using belMarduk for quite a while.
oops, forgot to add my <knock> info to previous note. I've been asking around. A few people mentioned the expression "knock yourself out" (always pronounced knock yerself out)usually said to somebody who wants to have a go at something you have not been able to do and usually preceded by "oh ya," a bit of a snicker and a "well of course he opened it up I loosened it first" after the fact.
From an encyclopaedia I have at home:
"BEL
[from Akkadian, meaning "Owner; Master"].
A Babylonian deity.
The title Bel was first applied to the god Enlil. Bel was part of the original Sumerian triad of deities, along with Anu and Enki (Ea). When Marduk (Merodach) became the chief god of Babylon, he was also given the name Bel.-"
See alsohttp://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/8/0,5716,15358+1+15167,00.htmlThe Hebrew prophet Daniel was given the name "Belteshazzar" by his Babylonian captors, if I remember my childhood Bible lessons correctly.
easily disassembled into its component parts
Checking back through this thread, I realise I failed to rise to this usage earlier, TEd. It has been the subject of intense debate in my family - my dad hates it with a passion, saying what's wrong with dismantle?! I defend it on the grounds as having a more subtle meaning than dismantle - it suggests to me this very sense of reduction to component form which implies the object's 're-mantling' at some stage. And since mantle as a positive verbal construct seems to have fallen off the table, I like the extra distinction this usage allows. However, it still leaves me with the nagging doubt of the pedant - am I sticking with a word out of misguided finesse, which most others are using with blunt imprecision. So I am reassured to find it in use here - not misguidedly I hope?
"to disassemble into its component parts" strikes me as a pleonasm. I think "disassemble" in itself is more than sufficiently pedantic. Things like scrambled eggs are impossible to disassemble anyway, and cars etc. can also be separated into their component parts.
impossible to disassemble I agree that some things like scrambled egg are impossible to disassemble (does this hold true of neoplasm?
)
But surely this adds to the suggestion that "to disassemble" carries the extra meaning that the parts may end up reconstituted...?
By the way, I think my dad's straining at the word comes from the difference of UK and USA English which definitely have their own aesthetic sensibilities (I know, tsuwm, YART!)
Perhaps we didn't use disassemble to avoid the confusion with dissemble. Thinking about it, avoiding confusion with other words never really seems to have stopped us using them has it?
Disassemble is one of those IKEA words, used generally late at night when discovering that a vital screwhole is in the wrong place because the whole side had been put on upside down!
Mav:
To me dismantle has the connotation of taking something apart permanently. At the end of WW II the United States dismantled the largest army it had ever fielded.
Disassemble to me carries the connotation that the new state of the object is temporary: I disassembled the computer desk because it wouldn't fit into the trunk (or boot for many of you).
Also, when I disassemble something, there's an implication that I am following instructions in reverse order. And, after all, one does not mantle a piece of furniture, one assembles it :)
the new state of the object is temporaryYep, I'm with you on this interpretation TEd. And with you Jo, when you imply a little confusion never hurt a language's chances. Or in the case of IKEA, a little contusion
: I disassembled the computer desk because it wouldn't fit into the trunk (or boot for many of you).
Surely, TEd, you could, in the first case, have got the elephant to carry it on it's back, or, in the second, have shoehorned it in?
>Surely, TEd, you could, in the first case, have got the elephant to carry it on it's back, or, in the second, have shoehorned it in?
Gerald, which is what my son calls his elephant, refuses to be a beast of burden. Since he's pink, of course, he's a beast of bourbon.
Challenge: What's the first pun in the preceding paragraph?
In reply to:
Gerald, which is what my son calls his elephant, refuses to be a beast of burden. Since he's pink, of
course, he's a beast of bourbon.
Challenge: What's the first pun in the preceding paragraph?
this couldn't possibly be what you had in mind, but a Jerrican hold a lot of bourbon.
Why duz 'e sink 'e's pink?
Challenge: What's the first pun in the preceding paragraph?
Well, Gerald Ford was a Republican president and the elephant is the mascot for the Republican party. Does that hold any relevance?
Gerald Ford was a Republican president
Good job, Jazzo. What's the play on words here? That the Republican's are a burden? Or should I look to the "pink elephant" reference and commence my parade? Allusions (as the author intended or invented by the reader) and puns often share terrain, do they not? I feel like I'm playing the Questions Game on "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"
pink elephants
There is nice side issue about white elephants, en passant. The term can be applied to most politicians, IMNSHO (is that the right abbreviation???). Pink has lots of layers of meaning if you look hard (even without rose tinted spectacles). On the other hand it could be a pink herring.
jo, your aura is certainly rutilant today.
Challenge: What's the first pun in the preceding paragraph?
I think it's really obscure:
Elephants trumpet.... Trumpets herald.... Herald what? Herald Gerald!
>Well, Gerald Ford was a Republican president and the elephant is the mascot for the Republican party. Does that hold any relevance?
No. A couple of you got pretty close, so I'll give a BIG hint: Scat!
No. A couple of you got pretty close, so I'll give a BIG hint: Scat!
Louis Armstrong?
No. A couple of you got pretty close, so I'll give a BIG hint: Scat!
Ella(phant) (Fitz)Gerald?
>Ella(phant) (Fitz)Gerald?
Yes. Whenever we go to the zoo my son (who will be five in a bit over a month) leans over the fence and yells, "Gerald! Gerald!" He's just waiting for passersby to ask him, and he replies, "Yes, the elephant's Gerald. My Daddy told me!"
Ted (who just knows he's going to catch holy hell from teachers in the not-so-distant future for teaching his kids that puns are good)
Kudos, Anna! Still quick on the draw, I see.
Ted, wonderful to have you back!
Ella(phant) (Fitz)Gerald?
Yeah, but Louis Armstrong still started scat!