Dear AWADers,

We all know that expressions of good will buoy up our spirits. Expressions of good will, unspoken acts of kindness, benevolence, charity in many different types of applications--these are actions and thoughts that make us happy. The giver is just as blessed as the receiver. Particularly so if the giver does so quietly without boasting.

Now I have realized in the past few days that the opposite is also true of certain givers. There are beings for whom giving pain gives them pleasure. Sadists they are sometimes called. There is also a German word I cannot remember that means, essentially, feeling pleasure from knowing someone else is suffering. It's something like schedenfruade--but I can't remember the spelling now.

Anyway, this is a dark topic and I apologize, really, for causing anyone's mind to go where people mean harm to others, but, anyway: What are those words that mean getting pleasure from others' pain, troubles, and distress? Sadism, sadistic...what are others?

My good will is extended to each of you and every one of you who read here, and may any person inclined toward cruelty against any of you be turned around toward love and kindness.

Best regards,
Wordwind

Dear WW: Schadenfreude usually means enjoying mischievous teasing. Enjoyment of causing
pain is more often called masochism.

cha[den[freu[de 7*9d4‘n fr.#d!8
n.
5Ger < schaden, to harm + freude, joy6 glee at another‘s misfortune

The most succinct version I can give of Schadenfreude is 'malicious joy'. Not a very happy word really, but then what's the English word for 'Flokati'. Ah-haa.

Hollywood Love Rugs:

Flokati Rugs: Our collection features 38 individual
selections in fifteen colors, custom sizes and
shapes, and Flokati Pillows as well.

Ye Gods, BY: What in the world is Flokati? Can it compare with a mattress? Remember the old
definition of a mistress? Something between a mister and a mattress?

Laid like a Flokati rug?

Enjoyment of causing pain is more often called masochism.

Now I'm all confused. I thought that was sadism? and that masochism was enjoyment in receiving pain?

reminds me of a t-shirt created by a late high school friend of mine: two people on it, with the caption: "When sadists meet masochists." The masochist (presumably!) is saying, "Hurt me," and the sadist is saying, "No."



Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

MG - you are correct. A masochist is one who enjoys receiving pain. I don't think it matters who initiates the pain although I think self-inflicted pain is common.

As a cubs fan I can relate to the term...

Yeah Chem, as a Cubs fan I know that you can relate to a dictionary of masochistic remarks. Would it offend you if I agreed? - -
Mild Mannered Milum.

Can't mention masochism without getting Tom Lehere's take on the subject:

The Masochism Tango

How I ache for the touch of your lips, dear,
But much more for the feel of your whips, dear,
You can raise welts,
Like nobody else,
As we dance to the Masochism Tango!

Let our love be a flame, not an ember,
Say it's me that you want to dismember,
Blacken my eye,
And set fire to my tie,
As we dance to the Masochism Tango!

At your command,
Before you hear I stand,
My heart is in my hand... Yeech!
It's here that I must be.
My heart entreats,
Just hear those savage beats
And go put on your cleats,
And come and trample me...

Your heart is hard as stone or mahogany,
That's why I'm in such exquisite agony,
My soul is on fire,
I'm aflame with desire,
As we dance to the Masochism Tango!

You caught my nose,
In your left castanet, love,
I can feel the pain yet, love,
Every time I hear drums...
And I envy the rose,
That you held with your teeth, love,
With the thorns underneath, love,
Sticking into your gums...

Take your cigarette from its holder,
And burn your initials in my shoulder,
Fracture my spine,
And swear that your mine,
As we dance to the Masochism Tango!

Bash in my brain,
And make me scream with pain,
And kick me once again,
And swear we'll never part.
I know full well
I'm underneath your spell,
So darling, if you smell
Something burning, it's my heart...

Your eyes cast a spell that bewitches,
The last time I needed twenty stitches
To sew up the gash
That you made with your lash,
As we dance to the Masochism Tango!

The Masochism Tango

- and it has such a good piano arrangement!

Thanks for that, slithy. Always one of my favourites of his.
Although "Christmas Time Is Here By Golly" is a pretty good antidote to the festive season.

Well, Fish, that's a tease! What are the lyrics? You're just leaving us here, after our chuckle over the tango, telling us you know another one... Well? Fish or cut bait!

Bait regards,
WordWader

Dear wwh,

Schadenfreude--that's it. Thanks. I was making the first syllable more complicated than it is.

Whether it't just mischievousness or not, I'm not sure. From some of what I remember reading about schadenfreude, I've gotten the impression that it could be a rather serious psychological state. An enemy suffers loss; the opposing enemy feels genuine joy. This would be removed from sadism in that the one experiencing the joy wouldn't necessarily have caused the suffering of the sufferer. But that joy over suffering would be schadenfreude. That's been my understanding up to this point. Now I'm wondering whether I've been incorrect and that schadenfreude is just mischief. I'll go back and reread the thread to see whether anybody else commented.

Anyway, thanks, wwh, for the spelling. And for your mischief, too!

WW

Edit: Oh, OK. I just read what belligerentyouth wrote--"malicious joy"--and that's more in line with what I'd understood schadenfreude to be. Probably its broad range of application would run from mischief making through serious suffering.

What are the lyrics?

Well, bless the Web for this WW (although as it tuned out I could remember most of the words):

Christmas time is here, by golly,
Disapproval would be folly.
Deck the halls with hunks of holly,
Fill the cup and don't say when.

Kill the turkeys, ducks and chickens,
Mix the punch, drag out the Dickens.
Even though the prospect sickens,
Brother, here we go again.

On Christmas Day you can't get sore,
Your fellow man you must adore.
There's time to rob him all the more
The other three hundred and sixty-four.

Relations, sparing no expense, 'll
Send some useless old utensil,
Or a matching pen and pencil.
("Just the thing I need, how nice!")

It doesn't matter how sincere it is,
Nor how heart felt the spirit,
Sentiment will not endear it,
What's important is the price.

Hark, the Herald Tribune sings,
Advertising wondrous things.
God rest ye merry merchants,
May ye make the Yuletide pay.
Angels we have heard on high,
Tell us to go out and buy!

So, let the raucous sleighbells jingle,
Hail our dear old friend Kris Kringle,
Driving his reindeer across the sky.
Don't stand underneath when they fly by!

Oh, and the Masochism Tango was found at:
http://members.aol.com/quentncree/lehrer/masochis.htm

Ah! And I just rediscovered Poisoning Pigeons In The Park. How could I forget??

http://members.aol.com/quentncree/lehrer/pigeons.htm

You should all hear these songs with music, though - Lehrer is a great musician and pianist, and a great performer.

Thanks, Fish.

You're an angel, and I didn't even have to spend a ha'penny!

WW

DubDub, I'm going to respond to your original question (yeah, I know, that's a rarity here! )
Let's say that our wishes/feelings towards others are on a continuum, with completely neutral feelings at the zero point. To me, good will would be on the positive side; that is, not neutral: actively wishing good for others, as opposed to, "Well, it would be nice if good things happen to her, but if not, I don't really care". So--in this framework, the opposite of good will has to be actively negative. And I would call that a number of things, starting with ill will and menace.

bad blood? aggro? malevolence?

keiva?

apologies, that was mean

apologies, that was mean
Well, can't hardly blame you (she said ungrammatically), given some of the examples you've seen from your "elders" here. These past few months have been unlike anything that's ever been here before: it has shaken us to our roots. Let us hope that those angry days are gone for good, now; and I think you've set us a fine example.

Woo-hoo, genuine word posts yet again, not just Bill poking at the Board with a stick trying to get something moving.

Okay, to me, schadenfreude is the enjoyment of other's (usually mental) pain. I experience it, for instance, when my crap company's incompetent bosses are squirming trying to explain away to the City why various information supplied to that august body turned out to be wrong or misleading. I've also always felt that there was a soupçon of masochism in there as well, i.e. you are also caught up in whatever is going on and it may be damaging you as well, but you can't help smiling at it. Does that make sense?

Sadism is delight in the inflicting of physical or mental pain or at least that's the way I read it.

Let's see--there's sadism, masochism, and schadenfreude. Then we have the dog-in-the-manger attitude--not quite the same, but somewhat overlapping. "I can't use it, but I'm damned if I'm gonna sit here and see you enjoy it."