I picked up one of Garrison Keillor’s books on the Lake Woebegone folk the other day and decided to chase up the word woebegone. It seems a contradiction at first sight in that instead of meaning woe being banished (begone meaning: go away immediately) it means appearing woeful. The “begone in this case derives from the past participle of the Old English “bego” meaning surround.

At the back of my mind I feel that there is at least one other word ending in “~begone”, but I can’t capture it. I have also tried to find other words derived from “bego” but with no success. It’s really bugging me, can anyone help?

dxb

at least one other word ending in “~begone”, but I can’t capture it. I have also tried to find other words derived from “bego”

Hmmm, are you sure you're not thinking of bygone, David? Was the first thing that came to mind for me. I've never heard of anything bygone except for times or days, come to think of it. Why wouldn't you talk of a bygone bus?

You also get begotten, used mainly (only?) in Biblical phrases. But that's another red herring (on a red bike) isn't it?

Water-muddying Fish

Quinion has a long article about "woebegone":http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-woe1.htm

He says that the verb "bego" has been obsolete for four hundred years.This means it is unlikely that
there are other words compounded with it.

except that sad phrase you hear at the end of a party:

beer-begone....

beer-begone

"Arrr, where be the beer, Jim-lad?"
"The beer be gone, Cap'n."
"The beer be gone, Cap'n!"
"Shut up, parrot."
"Shut up, parrot! AAAaaWwwkghk---"

If memory serves, beer is named after bir, the Saxon for barley. I live in a place called Barcombe, possible derived from Bircham = "barley field". Beer was very important to those Saxons, bless 'em

Beer, be gone! In a yellow stream down the post.

a recent article in the NYTimes, about beer, speculated that agraculture grew up not so babies could have a steady supply of wheat and oats and barley for bread, and porriage, and soup, but so their dad's could have a steady supply of grain for beer..

they suggested, all of civilization arose, because guys like their beer... funny thing is, the more you think about it, the more sense it makes.

Dear of troy: I'll bet grains were cultivated thousands of years before process of
brewing was discovered. Wine making would have been discovered by accident,
but not beer making.
Speaking of accidental discoveries, I think charles Lamb's Dissertation on Roast Pig
is a classic.

http://www.creighton.edu/~jwilli/elia/pig.htm

they suggested, all of civilization arose, because guys like their beer

Certainly makes sense to me.
Would they get out of their sleeping sacks, and more importantly, work as a co-operative team, just for bread and water? I think not.

Let's drink to our ancestors!

Wine making would have been discovered by accident,
but not beer making

Disagree, Bill - all it takes is a "soup" made of crushed grains, water and perhaps a bit of honey. The air gets to it, thus natural yeasts, and bingo. For sure it would taste bloody awful to start with, but then it's the long process of refinement, which includes the serendipitous discovery of malt-making.

There's a fine line between accident and invention, as witness your Roast Pig story

at least one other word ending in “~begone”, but I can’t capture it

On my way in this morning I decided that to get it off my mind I should agree with myself that the word I was trying to recall was “begirt” – nothing like a “~begone” ending at all really – but still! I have only a concise Oxford here, but it tells me that begirt, although meaning encircle, does not share the “bego” root as its stem is the same as for girth, being mediæval English from Old Norse gjörth.

The above led to the following simple thoughts on etymology for my simple mind.

Successive waves of settlers from Europe arrived in the British Isles bringing their language with them. Their entry point dictated the spread of their culture and each wave pushed back the existing residents. The entry point for a culture was usually (but not always) that closest to its home country, so the language mix varied regionally leading to bilingualism at the population overlaps followed by the absorption of words and terms from one language into the other. Eventually the whole mess was seasoned with French which in its turn was bastardised and partially absorbed.

The end result of all this is a fascinatingly varied etymology and a number of different words popular in different regions that all mean more or less the same, some (like begirt) eventually falling out of common use and others (like woebegone) proving robust survivors.

This combining of tongues has been followed by a period of exploration, expansion and imperialism resulting in the spread of the language around the globe but with divergent evolution taking place.

Perhaps eventually we wont understand each again. What was that about two great countries separated by a common language - why stop at two?

dxb

It even easier.. Let yeast do the work of malting..
take grain, grind, ferment (ie, let yeast go to work) bake, and get bread.. bread gets stale, soak it in water, to make a kind of soup, soup ferments again, beer!

the honey and flavors could be added to the bread..
eventually some smart guy figures out how to bypass the bread making bit, and learns to malt.. i bet it was after so natural disaster, and the wife was saying 'the hell, you will! i keeping the good grain and the good bread for the kids!' and he went and found some almost ruined, wet, almost sprouted grain.. and beer as we know it was born..

Dear of troy: When I searched, I found a site that supports your theory. Say earlliest
record of beer making is 6000 years old:

http://www.alabev.com/history.htm

NOt my theory, Dr bill, just a pargraph or two in the science section of the NYtimes, that caught my eye, and my fancy...

how much easier to understand, women finding huge fields of wheat, and then figuring out a way to trick the men into remaining there cultivating the crop.. What could they use to induce them? sex? well for a while, but then the women would get pregnant, and have kids.. no, a steady supply of wheat, to feed woman and growing children would be no great inducement to give up their rambling days.. but beer.. if women and there wheat, could be made into bread, and then beer... there was an eternal, unwavering attaction!

(12 oz of beer has same nutrictional value as 2 slices of bread.. about the same calories too. )

Dear of troy: there were tribes and clans and domesticity long before beer was invented.
Just about all primates are gregarious.

And according to what I've recently read, there are researchers who believe that language was by far more developed advanced long before the cave dwelling pictures.

And what was the motivation for talking? Give you one big guess. And if you cannot guess, consider why the birdies really sing.

I am in a bad mood today, by the way, so don't give me no grief. Give me a beer instead.

Beer regards,
WildWords

Got a couple of cold ones in the fridge, WW, come on over.

12 oz of beer has same nutritional value as 2 slices of bread.. about the same calories too

Yeah, but you still want to eat the 2 slices of bread, preferably with cheese (and pickle) after drinking the beer. Why's that, then?

Sure I must have mentioned the theory that we could live off nothing but Guinness and tomato juice.

Sure I must have mentioned the theory that we could live off nothing but Guinness and tomato juice.

why not, eh? since the Masai live off nothing but blood and milk and it don't seem to have done 'em any harm....

(think I am getting that right - or is it another African tribe that does that?)

but give me Guinness and tommy juice over blood and milk any day o' the week - or better still, Guinness and milk....drunk separately, of course

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

Sure I must have mentioned the theory that we could live off nothing but Guinness and tomato juice.

When you give blood in Ireland you are offered a glass of Guinness afterwards. Apparently it contains the equivalent nutrients as blood. Guinness is good for you!

(12 oz of beer has same nutrictional value as 2 slices of bread.. about the same calories too. )

. . . . it makes lousy sandwiches, but!



Sure I must have mentioned the theory that we could live off nothing but Guinness and tomato juice

What d'ya need the tomato juice for !

one more and more hears people who are likely decendants of asians speaking dialects of Spanish,

A very good point, Geoff - one of my most enduring memories of a hitch-hiking trip through Norway in the late '50s was standing outside a farmstead on the road between Bergen and Oslo, speaking to an old Norwegian farm-worker who spoke with a faultless *Irish accent! He told me that he'd never been to Ireland in his life, but had worked for twenty years in New York.

Sure I must have mentioned the theory that we could live off nothing but Guinness and tomato juice

What d'ya need the tomato juice for !

Umm, breakfast?

The days are gone when I could handle starting every day with "hair of the dog".

The days are gone when I could handle starting every day with "hair of the dog".

Well, FOAB, you know the trick to not getting a hangover is to not stop drinking!

So THAT's what's doing it! Not all that dog-hair! My nearly bald dog will be so pleased.

Makes me think of my father's old girl friend, Mae West, drawing herself up to her full five feet or so and intoning, "Guiness had nothing to do with it."

Guinness is good for you!

Too right! When my third brother was born, my mother was concerned because she didn't have much milk coming in. She mentioned this to someone who had enquired after the two of them, and the woman promptly fed her some stout. Sure enough, that did the trick - so that brother of mine was raised up on second-hand stout, and to this day, he is the tallest of the family...!

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

>The days are gone when I could handle starting every day with "hair of the dog".
Well, FOAB, you know the trick to not getting a hangover is to not stop drinking!

Yeah, well, I tried sticking a vodka drip in my mouth as I slept, Rube, but it kept working loose. Perhaps with a bit of Superglue on the tube..?

My nearly bald dog will be so pleased.

Have a great image here of you starting with an Old English Sheepdog* and ending up with a Chihuahua!

* same name for breed over the Pond?