One dictionary online says there is an Arabic word "murr". Another says it is of
Semitic origin. A URL about says it was from a shrub common in MidEast. But
since the shrub was relatively small, it must have been a lot of work to get much
of it, and that was why it was expensive.

http://www.historicjesus.com/glossary/myrrh.html

The gold, frankincense and myrrh brought to Bethlehem as gifts for The Child were rare and highly prized items.

How else could Joseph, a poor carpenter from Nazareth, finance a trip to Egypt to get his family away from Herod's wrath ... house and feed them on the trip and ditto when they got there until he found steady work which probably entailed learning Egyptian!

just this week, in an other thread, Dr bill brought up the word strigil.. in ancient times, soap was pretty crude, and water in many places, was none to clean, or readily available. to 'wash' one rubbed a soft oil into the skin, and the gently scraped off the oil and dirt.. aromatic oils, like myrrh were added to olive oils (third press usually, the cheapest and coarsed olive oil, and the one smelling the most olivey) the fragrant oil was better smelling... another common oil, was lavender. lavender has at its root laver, (latin) and goes back to lou in IE, to wash. the plant was first cultivated in ancient persia, but was common all through europe by roman times.

its now associated with old ladies, but its scent neutralizes body odor, especially ones associated with menstuation. it was so common for washing, its very name means to wash! and if you have ever seen a lavender bush, you know, its a small (18 inch .5 meters) high bush. myrrh is just another plant oil.

{waterless hand soaps, are still available, usually based on lanolin, (oil from sheep) you rub them in, and rub or scrap off.. }

cultivate -- does any one know what that word used to mean?

which probably entailed learning Egyptian!

I'm guesing that they only needed koine Greek. Anybody remember when the Ptolemy Dynasty started? They were Greek. Cleopatra was a Ptolemy, by the way.

Ptolemy started his dynasty - he was one of Alexander's generals, who argued about the splitting up of his kingdom, so that would be - what - 300s BC? Something like that.

alex

The character Myrrhine, a young and sexy wife, appears in the bawdy comedy-drama Lysistrata by Aristophanes.

One web-source, authored by a professor, states that the various character-names were not simply names: they had meanings in ancient greek, the name Myrrhine being a sexual reference to a part of the female anatomy.
http://www.humanitiesinthebeginning.org/Hum211/greece12.htm; final paragraph

The professor, being professorial, uses a technical term to specify that part, but I suspect that Aristophanes would in fact have used the more earthy, "street-language" of his day. On the other hand, a friend with whom I discussed this felt that the name Myrrhine relates to myrrh.

To check further I contacted a friend in Athens who is a by profession a Greek-English translator. Her reference-books indicate that the word indeed refers to the part of the female anatomy.

HOWEVER, there remains the possibility that there was, in greek, a linguistic connection between the anatomical word and the substance myrrh. Here my research ends except to note, in support of a possible such connection, that the substance myrrh was used as a base for fragrant oils and perfumes (see definition in bartleby).

Post-edit: boldfaced added to highlight the tie to the subject of myrrh, per of-troy's question.

Okay, my post wasn't perfect, but i did try to relate myrrh to other oils, and why oils were used for cleaning, and why scented oils were especially valualbe for cleaning, and pointed out one oil, lavender oil, (which is still pretty common in soap) actually gots its name from the root word to wash, and i refered to an other word that Dr bill brought up strigil (look up it Latin root... its has a meaning of binding or string for tyeing, strigil being soft, and strangle the same root, to bind firmly.. strain is related too.)

and my word stuff was ignored, and we went off on a perfectly valid language discussion (related to what language was spoken in Egypt.. )

and then we get back to myrrh, but with a familiar twist--
The professor, being professorial, uses a technical term to specify that part, but I suspect that Aristophanes would in fact have used the more earthy, "street-language" of his day. On the other hand, a friend with whom I discussed this felt that the name Myrrhine relates to myrrh.

To check further I contacted a friend in Athens who is a by profession a Greek-English translator. Her
refeerence-books indicate that the word indeed refers to the part of the female anatomy.

HOWEVER, there remains the possibility that there was, in greek, a linguistic connection between the
anatomical word and the substance myrrh. Here my research ends except to note, in support of a possible such connection, that the substance myrrh was used as a base for fragrant oils and perfumes (see definition in bartleby).

now i have dyslexia, and i read those comments(which i did bold parts of, but other wise just copied) , and what i got was, no facts about the word, myrrh, but an inuendo, that myrrh was just another word to degrade women.. he couldn't prove it.. but he put the idea out there.. have you noticed how every thread is reduced to sexual inuendo, and degrading woman? or attempting to degrade women?

Mind you, he clames come here to talk about words, and what words? degrading terms for women. not the first time, and most likely not the last.

so, boy, do have a problem with women? is your purpose here to find new words to use, to call women by anatomical, insulting terms? it does seem to be a pattern. first, you are sweet, and befriend the women, and then, once they have opened up, and started to trust you, you turn on them, and insult, and blame them..

as has been pointed out, you presumed that one of the newly name old times was a woman. but of course. bullies like women. they are easier to pick on. but i know your tricks, boy, and as you trot them out, i'll point them out.

when a woman makes an interesting, educated word post, you counter, how ever possible, clearly or tangentally, with a post about words that are used to reduce woman to their anatomical sexual characteristics. Mind you never say this woman or that woman is a c***, oh, no, you are much to refined.. No you wouldn't do that, but Aristophanes would, and you just want to point it out, you know, helpful like.

Reader, watch for this trick. and watch for his other tricks..how he pretends he is in agreement with others by using their names, how when his trick are layed bare he goes on the attack (after all the best defence is a good offense) learn his tricks. and learn, there is nothing to him but tricks..

lavender...myrrh is just another plant oil
Hi Trojan, glad to see you still around (occasionally)!

As Robert for some reason deleted the starting post, I'm unsure if this has been said already, but what the hell..

Yeah, I'd forgotten about lavender actually being named after one of its main uses (washing = Latin lavare I fink). Just occurs to me that lavatory has the same root - a "clean" word made "dirty" by association, perhaps.

For those who are even moderately into aromatherapy, lavender is a fantastic general use oil, especially noted for treating burns, but good for skin conditions of all sorts, as well as being relaxing. Associations with old ladies don't do fresh lavender oil justice at all.

Myrrh, on the other hand, is rather less useful. It is quite strong smelling, slightly bitter and musky. Not bad, but not nice. However, it's a powerful antiseptic and must be a good preservative, as it was used for embalming bodies. It is incorporated in some home-made toothpaste recipes, although I haven't a clue why teeth would need embalming.


Fisk

of-troy, is there anything I say that you won't rant about?

PS: my post was strictly word-related. Check the link.

of-troy, is there anything I say that you won't rant about?
Trick 6,inuendo and sexual slur, followed by trick 5the best defence against being caught doing wrong is a good offence. in the form of trick 4, the twist! he complains i am ranting.
what did you tell us about what word?

It is incorporated in some home-made toothpaste recipes, although I haven't a clue why teeth would need embalming.

I hazard a guess that it is not meant for the teeth but more for the gums, to make them firm and healthy. Any periodontist around?

Quite timely to be discussing lavender since they are now fragrantly in bloom in my garden. So it was named that after its use was known. I wonder what they called it before that.

I wonder what they called it before that.

"Hey you, yeh you, the funny-lookin' flower over there"?

the root word Laver (latin) also bring us the english latrine, laundry, lavage (a medical term for washing, ER fans will know it!) and lavish!

the latin root for soap is also shared by savor, and savory!

The antiseptic quality of myrrh must have made it very valuable, when there were few other effective medicines.. i wonder if any current day medicines use the plant myrrh or its oil.. (willow bark was used for fevers, and the an acid in willow sap, purifed, give us the active ingredient of asprins.)

i think i have heard the myrrh was one of oils used in embalming mummies. I looked up myrrh, and found it is a member of the genus Cammiphora family of shrubs, all of which have fragrant resins, one of which is Balm (which brings us back to embalm(ing)..

my dictionary says myrrh goes back to an arabic word myrrh, which means bitter--doesn't Mirium (Mary) also mean bitter?

My lavender doesn't have buds yet, but a neighbors bush that gets full sun is also in bloom.

what did you tell us about what word?

It's stated explicitly in the link, ma'am. It relates to myrrh, the original subject of this thread (and the title of all posts), rather than to your discussion of soap and "cultivate".

Sorry this ain't about the thread, eggzackly, but I saw a lavender farm in Tasmania. wordcrazy's post reminded me of a happy time spent frolicking in fields of bloomin' lavender! (one person on my tour suggested we frolic there - o, we were so charming!) It IS a marvellous scent.

But....um.....why does the song go "Lavender blue, dilly dilly?" Lavender is, well, lavender in colour.

here are lines for someone's "word" related posts about myrrh
The character Myrrhine, a young and sexy wife, appears in the bawdy comedy-drama Lysistrata by Aristophanes.
... Aristophanes would in fact have used the more earthy, "street-language" of his day.
...there remains the possibility that there was, in greek, a linguistic connection between the anatomical word and the substance myrrh. Here my research ends

the substance of the post was to relate myrrh, tenuously to a slur word for women.

the substance of my post, was to explore why aromatic plant oils were valuable, and how one aromatic oil (lavender) has a name directly related to the use of aromatic oils in past times.
it also refered to a word introduced in another thread, by Dr bill, about a strigil.. (a tool used with oils, when oils are used to wash)

as i researched it, i found some other interesting words origins, (the etymologoy of culture i thought facinating)
but i guess i didn't stick to myrrh specifically, nor did i go off on to the tangent of using earthy street language terms for as womans names.

it doesn't matter how many times you tell the same lie, its still a lie. repeation doesn't make something true. yes earthy 'street language' words, insulting words, exist. go out on a street corner and use them if you want.

"Oh, shit!"
- Last words on majority of flight recorders recovered after plane crashes

The Lone Haranguer

see http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=miscellany&Number=73229. With all these interruptions it's getting hard to talk about the subject of this thread, "myrrh".

Edit: Of-troy's repetitive post, immediately below, simply proves my point once again. Consuelo's title, "let's do it again", confirms their goal to repeat ad nauseum.

the person know as Keiva, who recently posted on this thread, was banned, for flaming. he forced his way back into this forum by implied threats to Anu Garg, the founder of AWAD. this same person has also been know, for certain, to post under the names AphonicRants and KeivaCarpal.

Keiva, go away. You are not welcome here.

Of Troy - the name 'Mara' means bitter in Hebrew, and I think it is related to Myrrh; it's the name Naomi gives herself when she goes back to Israel in the book of Ruth, because she believes the LORD has dealt harshly with her (although the later events show her to be wrong). Here are some other words about myrrh and its symbolism, from a sermon about the gifts the Magi brought Jesus...

It's also interesting to note that the Greek word for myrrh, "smurna", is the same as the name of the city and church which received a letter from the Apostle. Smyrna was the second of the seven churches of Asia that John was instructed to write to in the early chapters of the book of Revelation. This church was distinguished by it being persecuted (Revelation 2:8-11) - they understood the bitterness of being mistreated for the sake of the Gospel.

Myrrh then is brought as a gift to acknowledge the human suffering that Jesus partook of when He came into our world. Why did He refuse the drink? Because He had already drunk it. He had prayed at first that He could be spared the cup, but then He submitted to His father's will and drank it - the bitter cup of His suffering.

Thank all of you for your discussions of myrrh and the natural departures into related topics. I found the information about lavender and the words we get from it interesting too.

However...

I'm thinking about starting a thread about the word "ignore".

Robert

Dammit, now I love Robert too, as well as Geoff and Milo and Bill. May I add him to my wish-list for an AWAD harem?!



YOU GO BOY!

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.