I had a nice walk through the 'loop' here in Chi-town last Sunday and I discovered a few extras:

orientated - I LIU and found it is listed as a word (I always thought the word should be 'oriented', and it was a bit gratuitous sounding), but the definition says "to become adjusted or oriented", then that definition seems to concurr my 'feeling' since the diifference in definition as "orient" = To adjust - *seems to only be the difference between "passive and active". Extra or Enough?

governmental property - I'm holding back my desire to make a joke about *the pun, but - why? Extra or Enough?

The SunTimes Building - It is quite obvious it's a building! Extra or Enough?

Just 'cause it is in the book as a real word doesn't automatically include it in .... I'll shut up now.

Well, we've discussed at length orientated before, especially Jackie's aversion to the devilish word.

Governmental sounds like it might be too much, but I've heard it before. It sounds rather appropriate, though. Isn't the government always a little superfluous?

The SunTimes sounds like a newspaper to me. I've not heard of it as a building, probably because I've never been to Chicago.

Isn't the government always a little superfluous?


Aha! Under that libertarian garb beats the heart of an anarchist!

Thanks, JazzO. I was so excited about the finding the note to myself and LIU I forgot to search here... talk about extras.

http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=wordplay&Number=4792
http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=7817

Beware of Father Steve for he will boil you in your own suet.

My confessor required me to abstain from boiling anyone in his own suet during the forty days of Lent. And now that Ascensiontide is upon us, I seem to have misplaced my cauldron. Or perhaps I am just getting mellow in my old age.

Mellow or not, you would have to "tallow" me, because I use "orient" and "orientate", but not interchangeably. BelligerentYouth will probably get up on his high horse over this, since, of course he believes that informatics equals information science.

"Orient", to me, has always had the religious or directional connotation. "Orientate", on the other hand, means "indoctrinate" or "show" something.

Certainly, for everyday use, "orientate" is generally regarded here as the more appropriate word.

So FS, render me speechless, but not the cauldron again, I beseech you!

"orientate"

Blechhhh!

"orientate"

eeech! arrrgh!

I'm with wow and tsuwm. To me "orientate" smacks of officious snake-oil purveyors, not to mention high-placed managerial idiots, who, true to the Peter Principle, must demonstrate their inadequacy.

Hmmm, .... the superfluous potentate set out to orientate...

Oh, nevermind. It's a looooong afternoon in my book palace.

So we've heard the American view on orientated ... don't get me started on Americanisms! However, no-one from the British side of the pond has piped up yet. I wait with bated breath for their comments.

CK - Does this mean you consider yourself *from the other side of the other pond?

...up on his high horse over this, since, of course he believes... I'm sure BY's gender orientation has been establified in some other thread, but since I'm at a loss of where to and actually® caring about finding out, let me say I had the impression BY was female (not that there is anything wrong with that).

BY was female

I think you may find the photo on Max's idrive a/c insists that (if true) this statement must have been in another life!

And is it worth the bother, CK? Merkins will be merkins

BY was female

I think you may find the photo on Max's idrive a/c insists that (if true) this statement must have been in another life!

'Scuse me, but if I'm looking at the right photo, there's one of each and no indication which is BY. Anyone???

C.K. pipes up: BelligerentYouth will probably get up on his high horse..

I merely quoted the AHD, C.K.

I had the impression BY was female

I always knew I was in touch with my feminine side!
Making one's gender clear has not been a high priority for many here. I too mistook poor Bean for a man (okay it's die Bohne, but l'haricot). And nancyk, the photo is of myself and a friend, Stefanie.

Making one's gender clear has not been a high priority for many here. I too mistook poor Bean for a man (okay it's die Bohne, but l'haricot). And nancyk, the photo is of myself and a friend, Stefanie.

So I guess that takes care of BY's sexual oriention. . Mav, merkins R US.

So we've heard the American view on orientated ... don't get me started on Americanisms! However, no-one from the British side of the pond has piped up yet. I wait with bated breath for their comments.

Well KC, it seems that the mighty maverick has turned his nose up at your bait - maybe he doesn't consider himself a native of these sundry isles ?? Anyhows, seems a shame to waste good bait. So on behalf of 1 of 60 million:

Both used, if anything the ugly duckling more so, but not in formal&/written English.
My Collins frowns not uncertainly:
Careful users will avoid the use of orient**ed as a redundant back formation of orientation, since orient has the same range of meanings. Nevertheless, there can be no doubt that either form is acceptable. The excessive use of orientation and orient (or orient**ed) in such phrases as orientation course, profits-oriented, student-oriented is sometimes frowned on as jargon.

Interestingly, where both are used the nuances are segregated such that
orient: metaphysical/conceptual
orient***: physical/literal

It would seem that the two variants will carry on making their respective niches and the ugly duckling will transmogrify into a swan. Which raises two questions:
Will the swan breed on both sides of the pond?
Are all swans good looking?

wow said it best:
orientate - Blechhhh!

governmental - ..mental

The SunTimes Building - Seems like someone really boring couldn't think of a better name. Perhaps we can think of a good alternative...

What about "ironical"? I always felt "ironic" was enough. Anyone?

And is it worth the bother, CK? Merkins will be merkins

The last time I saw "merkin" in print was TIME article near end of WWII, telling about French prostitutes wearing blond pubic wigs because they were preferred by their African-American clientele.


And it's downhill from there. The OED "b" definition says a merkin is a "counterfeit hair for women's privy parts," and another dictionary calls it a "pubic hair wig." Sorry, but these explanations defy understanding. I mean, I've heard of niche markets, but this is ridiculous. My own interest in the word isn't just academic, as I'd like to make use of the fine quote of 1680, "Or wear some stinking Merkin for a Beard," but I want to make damn sure I know what the original item was

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_232.html
P.S I searched for the word before I posted, and found only one obscure mention. The top quote just did not and still does not mean anything to me. More ayleur horseshit?

"Orient", to me, has always had the religious or directional connotation. "Orientate", on the other hand, means "indoctrinate" or "show" something.


I always wanted to give an orientation speech. [Faldage standing at the lecturn gesturing vaguely in the proper direction, saying "That's east", and walking briskly off stage.]

Interestingly, where both are used the nuances are segregated such that
orient: metaphysical/conceptual
orient***: physical/literal

This explains CK's use of "oriention".

...I want to make damn sure I know what the original item was - Stop me....just, stop me!

BillH: Our dear Jackie once quoted that definition for me when I posted (somewhere in the far distant past) "your n'merican ain'tcha", and although I couldn't find it I now know you guy's (not you specifically) were making that pun before... [evil wringing of hands trying to get Jackie to post emoticon]

orient: metaphysical/conceptual
orient***: physical/literal

Now, I'm a staff member for a Boy Scout leader training camp and we teach a few outdoor skills including map and compass instruction. It's definitely "orient a map" and I would say that it's more physical than metaphysical, unless there are ghosts on the map.

Also, the "sport" which includes walking (a physical activity) is called orienteering, not orientateering.

Ok, Jackie's posting. I found our--make that one of our--
prior discussions on this hairy topic, at:
http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=10255

It includes tsuwm's link, which in my opinion is a better explanation of the term:
http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/merkin.htm

orientate/orient ..However, no-one from the British side of the pond has piped up

Wideyed has responded already but I will add my 2 new pennyworth.* I dislike "orientate", and try to use "orient" myself, though I rarely hear it used by others.
I have not noticed the conceptual/literal distinction myself.

Rod

** My pet peeve is the use of the word "P" or "Pee" for penny/pence in UK currency, which jars on my ears. This came about after the decimalisation in 1971(?) when we had Old pennies/pence shown as "d." and New pennies shown as "p." At the time it was necessary to distinguish but I would much prefer people reverted to using pence. I have a one man campaign going but without much success.

Ha! I'd never picked up on the usage of "merkin" as a verbal tic for "American". All right!

** My pet peeve is the use of the word "P" or "Pee" for penny/pence in UK currency, which jars on my ears. This came about after the decimalisation in 1971(?) when we had Old pennies/pence shown as "d." and New pennies shown as "p." At the time it was necessary to distinguish but I would much prefer people reverted to using pence. I have a one man campaign going but without much success.

Your loneliness is about to be relieved, Rod. I detest the usage of "p" instead of "pence", too. In fact, I'd like to promote the re-use of "denarius", personally, but I somehow think that would be a lost cause before it got off the ground.

But using "p" always sounds like the price of spending a penny to me!

maverick has turned his nose up at your bait

No, but.

It's Be Especially Lovely To Jackie week.

Ha! I'd never picked up on the usage of "merkin" as a verbal tic for "American". All right!

[lowered chin, slitted eyes e] A-HEM...

A-HEM...

That's the sound of Jackie clearing her throat, known as expectoring

I first encountered the word merkin in one of Tom Sharpe's stories (one of the Wilts) where the hero turns a dying clothing business round by moving into the sex aids business including merkins. I last encountered the word at our most recent Christmas do, where we had all been bought silly presents. One had been lucky enough to receive a (triangular) chest wig and gold medallion. Said chest wig made the rounds in various positions on various sexes, (we have the photos to prove it). Said merkin, for that is what we decided it really was, now regular appears in the office if someone pins up a revealing poster, where it is used to censor the offending portion.
Of course this often looks much worse than the original!

Rod

I've always seen the distinction as one of reflexive vs. [can't think of word - presentive(?)].

I orient myself in the Shawnee Nat'l Forest using a compass and the stars.
I orientate new students in(to) the MFA program.

I guess there's an official orientation program in the second instance, and that's what makes the difference. Does this make an ounce of sense? It should be said that I bridle at 'orientate' because it does seem a superfluous affix.

I nearly blew coffee right out my prodigious schnozz when I read tsuwm's link. It hadn't even occurred to me to read the word in the previous post as a synonym of "inhabitant of the United States of America." I guess because I always spell it 'murikan (which still sounds to me like something out of Tolstoy's short story 'Hadji Murad'). How very entertaining.

Ironical is pure dreck, imnsho.

but are lackadaisical, etc? What's the rule (presuming there is one) that regulates whether the -al gets affixed to the word? Are these all adjectives that have been created by lopping the adverbial suffix off?