Last night, while waiting for my goodwife to finish her usual interminable ablutions or whatever in the bathroom, I was channel-surfing on the TV and came across the BBC news. It was being read by a handsome young black man in a euphonius accent, not as plummy as one is accustomed to associate with the BBC, and he introduced a story about Nelson Mandela receiving an honorary degree at Magdalene College Cambridge, which was pronounced by the news anchor and also by a college official interviewed as 'Mawdlin'. I was already aware that Magdalen College Oxford (I believe I am correct with the two different spellings) is pronounced that way, but I thought that was a peculiarity of Oxford.

How does this pronunciation come about, if there is an explanation? Is the church of St. Mary Magdalene pronounced St. Mary Mawdlin?

Are there other wierd examples of Britspeak (other than names like Worcestershire and Cholmondely which would be a YART) that would be informative?

maud'lin môd lin
adj.
after Maudlin, Magdalene < ME Maudeleyne < OFr Madeleine: Magdalene was often represented with eyes red from weeping6
1 foolishly and tearfully or weakly sentimental
2 tearfully sentimental from too much liquor

Are there other wierd examples of Britspeak (other than names like Worcestershire and Cholmondely which would be a YART) that would be informative?

And they rag on US'ns for our "Reader's Digest spelling"!

How about "Pall Mall" = pell mell

"weird examples" = redundant & [affectionate nod-across-the-Pond e]

On a tangent:

Any examples of Brits Anglicizing foreignisms while us benighted US'ns attempt an approximation?

"Don Juan" comes to mind.

"Don Juan" comes to mind.

Not to mention Don Quixote.

In general I think US'ns are better at Spanish and the Brits are better at French (Hi E!)

maud'lin môd lin
adj.
after Maudlin, Magdalene < ME Maudeleyne < OFr Madeleine: Magdalene was often represented with eyes red from weeping


Thanks, Dr. Bill. I used the magdalen spelling in a post a week or so ago, intending it as a lame pun, and did not realise that it was, albeit weakly, defensible.

In general I think US'ns are better at Spanish and the Brits are better at French
Quite likely, though did you mean Mexican?. I must admit that Don Juan is pronounced by most brits with the "J" ("joo-anne" approx) though the throat clearing "hoo-wahn" or a softer "whahn" is also regularly heard.
I have only heard Quixote as "hee-o-tay" with varying degrees of throat clearing. Have you heard it as it is spelt? Apart from in "quixotic" or do US'ns pronounce that as in Don Quixote?
Rod

When not going out of our way to use good Spanish, we always say Juan as WAHN. A lover is called a Don Juan, Don WAHN. The pronunciation JOO-'n is exclusively used for Byron's hero, and probably very few people these days know they should say JOO-'n, not WAHN.

KWIKS-'t is also dying out. Almost everyone except me now says ke-HOAT-ay or ke-OAT-ay. (Unless they go for holidays on the Costa Brava and imagine they can trot out a KH.)

Magdalene college pronounced Mawdlin at Oxford not Cambridge

My son and daughter went to Cambridge and Oxford respectively, though neither to Magdelen, Oxford or MagdalenE, Cambridge and I believe both are pronounced Maudlin. Condensed from the Cambridge Magdalene website:
===================================
One of the Benedictine abbeys involved in the College, Walden, came into the possession of Thomas, Lord Audley as a consequence of the Dissolution of the Monasteries. Having thus acquired Audley End, the Garter and his peerage, he then re-founded Buckingham College as the College of St Mary Magdalene in 1542. The dedication probably attracted him as providing a pun on his own name, since the usual contemporary pronunciation of Magdalene(e) was then ‘maudlyn’ (as it still is here);
============================

Interestingly, the Magdalen Oxford website gives no clues on pronunciation, presumably as a first test of admission elegibility! However various Oxford tourist guides state:
Magdalen College, (it should be pronounced "Maudlin") is another of Oxford's most famous University Colleges

Are there other wierd examples of Britspeak
Doesn't sound at all wierd to me so I probably won't notice any.

Rod

.Almost everyone except me now says ke-HOAT-ay or ke-OAT-ay. (Unless they go for holidays on the Costa Brava and imagine they can trot out a KH.)

Which (stirring ruthlessly) "begs the question", "how do you say Quixote?"

"how do you say Quixote?"

kee-HO-tee

"how do you say Quixote?"

kee-HO-tee

Thanks, Rapunzel. I was intrigued by NicholasW's saying "almost everyone except me(italics added) ", and so asked him how he said it, to find out what made him the exception.

Oh. Whoops.

"how do you say Quixote?"

Key-OH-tay

wow

Oh, how kwicksotic of you all!

Don Quixote
The French spell it Don Quichotte, and pronounce it something like Donkeyshit. Voila la gloire pour toi!

something like Donkeyshit. Voila la gloire pour toi!


Covered with it, are you?
(Sorry, Bob, I could NOT resist that one!)

KWIKS-'t is also dying out. Almost everyone except me now says ke-HOAT-ay or ke-OAT-ay. (Unless they go for holidays on the Costa Brava and imagine they can trot out a KH.)

I say it the way it's spelt: KWIKS-'t.

In Spanish in Cervantes' day it was ki-SHO-te and so spelt, Quixote. The letter X represented SH as it still does in Basque, Portuguese, and Mexican languages.

This pronunciation was taken into French, and given a French spelling Quichotte. (Since then the final -e has become silent in French.)

The spelling was taken into English, but was pronounced in an English way, as in 'quixotic'. Attempts to render a Spanish pronunciation are only modern.

In Spanish the SH sound changed to KH. The normal source of this sound was Latin GE, GI. The path was something like G > J > ZH > SH > KH. This sound was spelt GE, GI, JA, JO, JU.

But there were also SH's that didn't come from Latin -- e.g. Xabier, a Basque name -- so those were spelt with X. In Portuguese X from Latin X can have this pronunciation, so I imagine that was also a source of the Spanish SH sound, but I'd have to look that up.

However, once both sources gave the same SH sound and this changed to KH (the modern pronunciation in Juan, jota), the words were respelt with G or J instead of X. So the modern Spanish for the name is Quijote. (So also Javier < Xabier.)

Therefore Quixote is an English word and we can pronounce it as it suits us.

Since you asked.

And what about Welsh? Now there's a whole new topic!

And what about Welsh?

Oh, Gatsby : WELCOME!
We need another rabble rouser now that Capital Kiwi is going to be travelling! Stay with us!
wow

Ta, wow...Just learning the ropes, so to speak, but I have an addictive persona, so you shall see me creeping in uninvited, with flaming vindictiveness

We need another rabble rouser now that Capital Kiwi is going to be travelling! Stay with us!

I apologise, (a) for rabble-rousing [who, moi? -e]. I shall now take off my black shirt, highly polished Sam Browne, jackboots and swastika, shave off that ridiculous leedle toothbrush moustache thingy and comb my cowlick back into its accustomed place. And (b) for thinking that going to the US of A was not going to (1) cut me entirely off from electricity and phone services and (2) see me temporarily resident on a completely different planet.

Although come to think of it, for most of us outside the New World the US of A does rather resemble Planet Reebok ...

Wow, when I come to see you I suggest you have the NH National Guard (all 3 of them?) ready to repel invaders. They should look out for a dusty Chevvy Metro ... the Helen Clark for President sign on the roof is meant to be a joke. Although I understand there's little room for levity in American politics. I do read P.J. O'Rourke, you know! And, dare I mention it, Hunter S Thompson.

And (b) for thinking that going to the US of A was not going to (1) cut me entirely off from electricity and phone services and (2) see me temporarily resident on a completely different planet.

Well, you are starting in California, aren't you? hi B96! Try to time your stops to avoid the rolling blackouts. I have no suggestions as to the "completely different planet" aspect, though.

when I come to see you I suggest you have the NH National Guard (all 3 of them?) ready to repel invaders. They should look out for a dusty Chevvy Metro

Now, now! No jokes about the NH Guard, if you please as they are on alert already...as an honor guard!

When the boss ain't lookin' check out http://www.SeacoastNH.com and see what's going on.

You can stop by here, we're on a grid that for some reason has been promised no black outs. Putting me and my AWAD in the same catagory as hospitals and firestations. (Although I'm not holding my breath.) And while it may seem like another planet, we still get AWAD.

AWAD is another planet ... and all the inhabitants thereof are Maaahvelous!

One useful bit of Britspeak I have not heard for some time is the characterization of a social error as "bad form."

It was well illustrated in a scene in the Disney cartoon version of "Peter Pan." The villain, a cartoon version of Basil Rathbone as Captain Hook, becomes irritated by the singing of one of the pirates aloft. He pulls a piston from his belt, and to demonstrate his "cool" proficiency, without looking up, nonchalantly shoots the pirate dead. The mate, Smee, laughingly chides him "Bad form, Captain, you cut him off in the middle of his cadenza!"

In reply to:

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When the boss ain't lookin' check out http://www.SeeacostNH.com and see what's going on.

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I think what wow was shooting for was:

http://www.SeacoastNH.com/

I think what wow was shooting for was:

http://www.SeacoastNH.com

Thanks, Sparteye. Nice catch!

Went back and changed it from SeecostNH -- just to add to the confusion!