Don't know about the rest of you, but the first I ever heard "flibbertigibbet" was in the lyrics of "Maria" from The Sound of Music. This musical, along with Mary Poppins, is one from which I can sing nearly all the songs, having come along at an age in my life when one bought the records and played them over and over. The toughest one to learn was "The Lonely Goatherd". Anyhoo, I have used "flibbertigibbet" throughout my life on occasion, whenever the fancy strikes. It's a great word! :0)

I always thought it would be a good name for a band.

two: Good for you in this dumbnuts milleu where the average clod will attach a new meaning to an old word rather than use or invent one more colorful

even a better name for a band.

This one too mayby? Promising?

well... I would think something more like the Exceptional Clods, since all clods are pretty average, no?

Yes , but that would make them exeptional and wouldn't that be very average?

exceptional is average?

Thinking you are exceptional is average.

Does that mean thinking you are average is exceptional?

seems these days that thinking is exceptional.

c'mon guys, I already have a headache...

The Headache

another great name for a band....

That plays for an encore the much loved song " Painkillers ".

or certain forum members.... ;0)

I'm laughing so much I can't think of a gay riposte... thanks, y'all!


[*battening down for the eventuality of a tornado*]

Still with the headache... we had our "tornado", which was more like hurricane force winds for about 5 minutes. Don't know how bad the trampoline is yet, but it's up against some trees. It even picked up a large planter, ripped out the plants and threw it across the lawn! We had 1/2 inch size hail, also. It was actually quite scary. I'm at the local library as we speak... oh, and with strep throat! Aaaarrrgghhh!

yowza!

my rehearsal for this evening was cancelled, and some after-school activities, too, because of the tornado warnings here.

I'm glad someone has the temerity to use gay to have a meaning other than the one currently most common. We should not lose perfectly good definitions to trends.

Begging your pardon, but I believe you are making a new use of the word temerity , which Merriam-Webster defines as "unreasonable or foolhardy contempt of danger or opposition." I think you mean to say audacity or courage, unless you're expressing schadenfreude at someone else's display of temerity.

/This from a guy who once said "Platonic method" when he meant to say "Socratic method," and who can't keep Cormac McCarthy and Carson McCullers straight.

My Merriam-Webster says audacity is a synonym of temerity. My problem with temirity that I confuse it with timorousness which is the opposite - thankfully there's no timority or we'd really be in trouble.

- I'll admit to having problems with Dylan McDermott and Dermot Mulroney, also Sinclair Lewis and Upton Sinclair.

Mama knows the poor language is nowhere near robust enough to handle these corruptions. There could be no possible other word to fill the gap left by the destruction of gay.

don we now our gay apparel..
fa la la..

-ron o.

My problem with temirity that I confuse it with timorousness which is the opposite …

I only keep the difference straight by remembering “timorous beastie”.

I do not categorically object to an old word's receiving another meaning. I'm sure that I unwittingly as well as wittingly participate in meaning-adding. Near-supersession of older meanings can deserve objection.

That's nice. Or should I say egregious?

or perhaps even objectation?

I disagree that M-W is identifying audacity as an absolute synonym. I saw the link you are referring to ("synonyms see TEMERITY"), but ultimately the definitions are such that temerity lacks any sense whatsoever of praiseworthiness. Audacity on the other hand, is more flexible and can be used to describe acts of daring without necessarily adding an element of censure as temerity does. One definition of audacity is akin to temerity ("b: bold or arrogant disregard of normal restraints <had the audacity to defy his boss>") but another is not ("a: intrepid boldness").

The distinction brings to mind Dead Poets Society, in which the teacher played by Robin Williams urges his students to "suck the marrow out of life," but later has to point out that he didn't intend for them to choke on the bone.

You'll have to decide what you should say, determinism notwithstanding.

gay

From the century before last:

IMO, if they have a single meaning in common that is recognized as being very nearly the same, then it can hardly be said that it is a "new" use. Perhaps one might have an edge over another in a particular context, but implying that it's out and out wrong I don't understand.

First off I'm not implying that it's wrong, I'm stating explicitly that it's wrong. Indeed I thought I was being painfully explicit, but let me be even more so:

The initial statement that I was referring to praised the use of the word gay in its original, non-sexual sense. Praised is a key word here. Using temerity in the context of praise is wrong. If you were teaching English to an advanced class of langauge students in say, Germany, you would point this out to them. It is the wrong word. Temerity is not a term of praise. It means foolish boldness. If your student were to go out into the world and use the word in an attempt to express praise they would be making an error.

Audacity on the other hand, is a more flexible word. You might use the word to mean foolish or arrogant boldness, but you are not restricted to that sense of it. It can also mean admirable boldness, successful boldness. For example, MacArthur's landing at Inchon during the Korean War took audacity; the failed Bay of Pigs invasion during the Kennedy administration would be more of an example of temerity.

As to having some meanings in common, the question is which meanings? The original poster meant to express admiration, and it is this meaning which is NOT shared by the two words. Or, more importantly, the note of praise that the writer meant to convey is missing from temerity, which conveys just the opposite sentiment.

No, it's not wrong. It may change the meaning of the sentence to not be what you expected. I don't think the original sentence intends means "praise", but recklessness, lack of fear of censure. Your strict negative meaning is your own interpretation. Other dictionaries' definitions of the word are even less open to your particular interpretation.

Wow! You guys must all be closer than I even knew, because you even know each other's intent! That's amazing!

I must be missing something, though, because I still don't understand why a person may not express his or her own positive emotion ("I'm glad...") about something seen as "foolish". This is how I interpreted (because I don't know anyone's intent for sure) the post. Is it forbidden to praise something foolish? As stated, the word itself does not contain any praise, but this was added (if you know the posters intent) by the poster, or at least the poster was happy to observe it. I don't understand why this is so objectionable.

“objectation” does indeed have an extra something that influenced me to actually look the word-candidate up, which looking up resulted in my seeing oblectation, which I did not know, at the top of Dictionary.com's dictionary suggestions. Learning follows many a crooked road, doesn't it.

Certainly a person may do just that, using language playfully, or using the word temerity ironically. I simply do not detect that use in the following passage (I could be wrong):



And it isn't THAT big a deal. In my initial reply on this subject I was merely pointing out, as gently as possible, a distinction between a word's meaning and the message that the user intended, apparently, to convey. To me, using temerity to express a positive reaction is like using stench to praise a woman's perfume. I maintain that temerity is a word that conveys a sense of disapproval. Using http://www.onelook.com I entered temerity to see what other dictionaries say about it. Here is a partial but not exhaustive list:

te•mer•i•ty [ tə mérrətee ] noun Definition: boldness: reckless confidence that might be offensive (Encarta

temerity • noun excessive confidence or boldness. (Compact Oxford English Dictionary)

noun [U] FORMAL DISAPPROVING a willingness to do or say something that shocks or upsets other people: [+ to infinitive] She had the temerity to call me a liar. (Cambridge Dictionary)

reckless or foolish boldness; rash disregard of danger. (Wordsmyth)

Foolhardy disregard of danger; recklessness (Bartleby.com)

Te*mer"i*ty (?), n. [L. temeritas, from temere by chance, rashly; perhaps akin to Skr. tamas darkness: cf. F. témérité.] Unreasonable contempt of danger; extreme venturesomeness; rashness; as, the temerity of a commander in war. Syn. -- Rashness; precipitancy; heedlessness; venturesomeness. -- Temerity, Rashness. These words are closely allied in sense, but have a slight difference in their use and application. Temerity is Latin, and rashness is Anglo-Saxon. As in many such cases, the Latin term is more select and dignified; the Anglo-Saxon more familiar and energetic. We show temerity in hasty decisions, and the conduct to which they lead. We show rashness in particular actions, as dictated by sudden impulse. It is an exhibition of temerity to approach the verge of a precipice; it is an act of rashness to jump into a river without being able to swim. Temerity, then, is an unreasonable contempt of danger; rashness is a rushing into danger from thoughtlessness or excited feeling. (Websters)

temerity - ( ) A form of extreme boldness (Grandiloquent Dictionary))

Cambridge specifically identifies the word as one of disapproval, and the others use terms like reckless, excessive, foolish, rash, foolhardy, and unreasonable in their definitions. Only the last definition has the least bit of ambiguity about disapproval, using "extreme" which IMO expresses not quite the same judgement as the other adjectives.

I'm trying the “extreme venturesomeness” definition of temerity as given by Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, used in playful overstatement.

I'll drink to that.

That was the war of the wips? I would not mind asking what "flibbertigibbet" in fact could mean.

And if everyone would have the audacity to use "gay" in the "innocent" sense (hm.. innocent/normal ) then everyone could get back to saying homo again.

How would I call f.i. a gay pattern in a fabric? Cheerful? No.Happy? No.
Is there a synonym for gay in various uses?
A gay company to me is just a gay company ; not a company of gays. Etc.

A flibbertigibbet is a person who is a bit scattered, mentally, kind of flitting through life in a random way. I don't know anyone who is always like this, but I do see people acting that way at times!

In order not to further mangle this thread, I propose we do not get into a serious discussion about the use of "gay" in our various societies. Being lazy, I will say that the dead horses lie beaten here, here, and here.

Thank you!
As for the dead horses, I'm glad the links don't work.
Don't need to see the massacres.

I had guessed that flibbertigibbet was created for the musical, and only looked it up several hours ago, not expecting to find it. There'll be plenty of chances to use it if I can only memorize it.

My high school band director had a fondness for Mary Poppins and The Sound of Music arranged for band. I judged everything we played mainly by my instrument's parts, and found that I could handle the many rehearsals plus performances of The Sound of Music better than those of Mary Poppins. Had the sheet music included the lyrics, I could have improved my vocabulary. Reading the lyrics while counting rests, though, might have been jeopardous.

As the stirrer-upper of this commotion, I'd just like to say that my, ahem, intent was to play on the colorful, evocative phrase gay repartee.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily call you a stirrer, unless it was on purpose, which I can't tell. If you weren't trying to mix it up, then you were merely the catalyst, so don't lose any sleep (yeah, like you would!)... And actually, true to board form, the biggest commotion occurred over the use of "temerity" anyway! :0)

and, knowing ASp as we do, temerity may, in fact, be very..

-joe (nary an ataraxic moment) friday

Your italicized dictionary has taught me many new words.

(italicized?)

I trust you have been disabused of this notion.

tsuwm. Bite me..

[post moved elsewhere]

I observed that I had looked up the word. Did that observation inform your reply?

It wasn't so much the fact of your having looked up the word, since I had no knowledge of where you looked it up, but from the fact of your having used the past perfect to describe that looking up.

Okay, folks, this is getting almost creepy. About four times in the last few days, I've been experiencing weird coincidences of seeing or hearing something, then seeing/hearing the same thing in a different place. For ex., I was watching a TV show where a character said so-and-so would be the last man standing; then I turned to the listings, and there was the movie Last Man Standing.
Yesterday I was reading a magazine article about a woman who created something called Jibbitz, from the word flibbertigibbet; I come here today, and here it is!

"You're traveling through another dimension -- a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's a signpost up ahead: your next stop: the Twilight Zone!"
Cue theme music.

I have a similar experience once in a while, usually as a word or topic occurring from different sources within seconds. It's just enough to mess with my mind about probability or a cosmic jester, not enough for me to take it as a gift or a curse.

I believe it was the Good Doctor A. who said, "I'd be surprised if these sorts of coincidences didn't occur."