Anyone who knows the language should refuse to use the word. In my dictionary, there is a full page of homo-words, all having a conotation of "same". If someone learned English without knowing slang, they would interpret homophobic as meaning "fear of your own kind". Someone who didn't know the language properly, took the slang term "homo" and created this word.

Yep, you're right. But language changes, as I have been led to accept and understand.

Do you have an alternative?

Gay is, I think, a rather absurd euphemism while homo refers clearly to love for one of the same gender. 'Gay' for homosexual took away the innocence of the original meaning of the word gay. Gay-o-phobia, you can't be serious.

I object not only to the absurd etymological construction of the word, but also to the way it is popularly used. I know I'm touching on politics here, but it is also a case of word abuse.

Allowing for a moment its valid use to mean fear of homosexuals, and by extension hatred also (since hatred often comes from fear), there is a kind of person that is truly homophobic because they are suppressing their own homosexual tendencies (like the next door neighbour in the film American Beauty). However, it is now used as a pejorative term to describe anyone who opposes the homosexual lobby in any way. Even if someone is not afraid or, or does not hate homosexuals, if they say anything against homosexual practices or lifestyles, they earn this label. If you do not agree with the beliefs of homosexual lobbyists you are automatically considered "homophobic." That is a great language coup by the homosexual lobbyists that is rarely commented on because to do so is to become homophobic. It's a bit like speaking against a conspiracy theory - in the mind of those who hold it you become part of it.

There's no inconsistency there. I'm only objecting to the disingenuous use of the word. It is not generally accepted as meaning simply opposed to homosexuality or homosexual practices. Its generally accepted meaning is a pejorative one. This is someone with something wrong with them, someone who is suffering some kind of mental problem or paranoia. That's fine if that's what it has come to mean. But applying the word 'homophobic' with all those negative connotations to someone who simply opposes or criticises something to do with homosexuality or particular homosexuals the clear implication is that any criticism of things Gay must be inherently psychologically unhinged. It thus stymies objective debate about Gay issues and is simply namecalling as a substitute for rational counterargument.

Any word can be misused. The word liberal has taken on a pejorative sense, for bleep sake.

'Bleep' - now there's a word with an interesting etymology I bet.

Liberal - depends on the context. It used to mean simply generous in temperament and behaviour. It can also mean people of certain political leanings, certain schools of theology, or someone loose and lavish with their possessions. In Australia, with a capital 'L' it is a political party, which, confusingly is not politically 'liberal' in the sense that Americans use the word, viz to describe the social liberalism of the Democrats, but is the Australian equivalent of the Republican party (well the nearest we've got to it). Of course if you are of the opposite political or theological persuasion in any of those contexts then, yes, it becomes a pejorative term in certain circles. But it doesn't have an inherently negative etymology like 'homophobic' does.

Words don't have to mean what their etymologies suggest. Homosexaphobia might suit you better, but it's a mouthful. It also wouldn't address the criticism I have heard more people make, namely, that they are not "afraid" of homosexuals, but merely dislike / hate / pity them.

No doubt politicians and others use words like Humpty-Dumpty, but often with an attempt to misdirect or "reframe" the discussion. If you like a policy, you will describe it in terms that would mark dissenters as opponents of reason or humanity. This is not the purview of a single party or philosophy. We have (in the US) 'The New Deal', and 'Affirmative Action', but we also have 'Defense of Marriage Act' and 'No Child Left Behind.'

'Gay' for homosexual took away the innocence of the original meaning of the word gay.

From Partridge (1961) A Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (in two volumes): "Gay. (Of women) leading an immoral, or a harlot's, life: 1825, Westmacott (OED), In C. 20, coll., on verge of SE.--2. Slightly intoxicated; ob. C.19-20; Perhaps orig. a euphemism.--3. Impudent, impertinent, presumptuous: US (--1899), anglicized in 1915 by PG Wodehouse, OED (Sup.)." Also, gay house == brothel; gay in the arse == (Of women) loose; to lead a gay life == to live immorally; the gay instrument == the male member; gaying it == sexual intercourse.

The word gay, like many a word in many a language, has many a meaning, yet nobody rails against the multiple meanings of set. Long ago, I came to the conclusion that it's not the word or its meanings that folks are uncomfortable with but the referent.

homosexual

The word was coined inthe mid-19th century. Many have railed against the word, which like telescope, is a mix of Greek (homos) and Latin sexualis. Somehow they think that one oughtn't to mix roots from the Classical languages. Some think the homo is the Latin for 'man, mankind', but that word would yield hominiphobia I suppose which still others might mistake for a 'fear of grits'.

Once, but long ago, according to Online Etymology it started off like this:
gay
1178, "full of joy or mirth," from O.Fr. gai "gay, merry," perhaps from Frank. *gahi (cf. O.H.G. wahi "pretty"). Meaning "brilliant, showy" is from c.1300.

From the time it became showy it may have gone downhill.
Then I will use merry or joyful.

Gay, in modern usage as a term of sexual orientation, did, and still does for many, connote being out, open in some if not in all social settings about one's sexual orientation. More and more, in media reporting and commentary and elsewhere, gay is being substituted for homosexual, even when the person being described has previously maintained a heterosexual identity and denies, or does not admit, any homosexual tendency or conduct. Another distinction of meaning gets smeared.

hahahahahaha - what the heck is hominy grits anyway?? I confess to be a little hominiphobic - it sounds like some awful Southern food torture inflicted on Yankee tourists in roadside cafes!


That's the genius of English - to be able to make whatever it needs to communicate out of whatever left over recycled bits and pieces of language it can find!

Hum... Grits is respectable food if well prepared. We northern unspoiled youths were raised with reasonably good results on wheat and buckwheat grits. Italians have their corn grits- polenta, also good to very good. The Arab world has its grits in the form of coescoes or tabulei. (very good!)

What zmjezhd with means with 'fear of grits' I would like to know too.

I'm not fussed about polenta, but I like couscous (whatever way you choose to transliterate it) very much and tabouli is okay as long as they don't go overboard with the parsley. I believe couscous and tabouli are made from wheat, not corn like polenta a grits. Tabouli is made from Bourghul wheat and coucous from semolina.

What zmjezhd with means with 'fear of grits' I would like to know too.

Before maize was imported to Europe after the discovery of the New World, polenta was Latin for 'pearl barley'. BranShea, I didn't say I had a fear of grits. I love polenta (especially day-old, sliced and reheated, served with sugo or ragù), couscous, tabouli, pozole (< Nahuatl potzolli), jook (aka rice congee < Dravidian kanji) 'rice porridge'. I was just making a wee calembour: hominiphobia 'fear of mankind', hominyphobia 'fear of grits', humminaphobia 'fear of Ralph Kramden'.

Ah, jook - not as well known as the others but it's quite nice. Oriental people often give it to those who are ill, regarding it somewhat in the same way as westerners traditionally regard chicken soup.

Nice cooking!

Edit: pearl barley is still eaten here under the name of 'gort', which comes close to 'grit'. (while grit officially translates to gries)

Oriental people often give it to those who are ill, regarding it somewhat in the same way as westerners traditionally regard chicken soup.

Ah, yes. I would call it a comfort food. In my environs, it's rather easily obtained, but there is a huge and well-established Cantonese community here. One of the best places to get jook (though it is not mentioned on the menu) is at a local casino where one can often see folks playing pai gow and eating congee. For invalids, plain jook is usual, but for the healthy (and especially at Sunday brunch) all sorts of things can be added, directly or as side dishes: e.g., fried wheat gluten, seafood, preserved eggs, pig's blood.

gort

English grits < Middle English grutta 'course meal' < Old English grytta, pl. 'course meal, bran, chaff' (link). German Grütze Dutch gort, and French gruau are related (link).

Interesting. I wonder if it's a coincidence that the grt based words are formed by roughly the same action of the jaw as that required for chewing the stuff? What do you call that? It's not exactly onomatopoeic, since that relates to sound, but something similar in concept.

What do you call that?

It probably has something to do with sound symbolism or phonosemantics (link). It has been studied by linguists, but it can be a controversial topic. The most common meme of this sort would be the alleged universality of labial sounds in words for 'mother' and the act of suckling.

Is there ANYTHING you don't know?

Or should I say anything that you know you don't know? Since you can't answer for the things that you don't know you don't know I suppose.

Is there ANYTHING you don't know?

An excess, but I tend not to steer conversation thither. For example, because of a couple of bad experiences in high school, my exposure to, study of, and grasp of physics and calculus are sub-optimal. (Thanks for the lauds and emoticons.)

TEd is going to have so much fun with this one...

Glad to unintentionally oblige

so much fun with this one... But Etaoin, you don't think you'll be let of the hook that easy, do you? Declare yourself unless you're having a gross indecency in store.

Pearl Barley won't you please grow pone.

Pone

Chiefly Southern U.S. See johnnycake. See Regional Notes at johnnycake, light bread.
ETYMOLOGY: Virginia Algonquian poan, appoans, cornbread.
REGIONAL NOTE: A staple of the early American colonies from New England southward to Virginia was pone, a bread made by Native Americans from flat cakes of cornmeal dough baked in ashes. Pone is one of several Virginia Algonquian words (including hominy and tomahawk) borrowed into the English of the Atlantic seaboard. The word pone, usually in the compound cornpone, is now used mainly in the South, where it means cakes of cornbread baked on a griddle or in hot ashes—as the Native Americans originally cooked it.

What's barley got to do with corn? Sigh...

What's barley got to do with corn?

In the UK (and some of the Commonwealth countries) barley is a corn.

thought that was Bill Barley.

what? no hook for me. nothing came to mind for me, other than I knew there was a good pun in there somewhere, and TEd's the man for the job.

Fald's was good, but I am in shock that he did a pun.

corn=barley.

To use the words of Astérix : "Ils sont fous les Anglais".
Kidding.

But Webster gives:Date: "corn" was first used in popular English literature: sometime before 1010.But at that time they used corn for all sorts of grains. As we still use 'koren'
for all types of grass related grains.

I'm glad you're happy with it. (etaoin) It should be explained to me were it not that a pun explained is no longer a pun.
So no use explaining.

Never heard that one before. It's certainly not known as a corn in Australia. Here corn is maize and nothing else. Barley is barley.

One thing they both have in common is that they can be used to make alcohol.

My English teacher was a New Zealander and he didn't use barley to mean any sort of corn. He did introduce me to barley sugars though.

corn

Maybe it's just in the UK (link and link). Corn is a generic term for that which we in the States call grain. Maize is what we call corn. Corn also refers specifically to the seed of some plants: hence barleycorn (link).

Perhaps it's dialectical even within the UK?

We are the same. Grain refers almost exclusively to the seed of grass-like plants such as wheat, barley, sorghum, etc. We don't use the word 'corn' in that generic sense but only to refer to maize.

corn (in the sense of generic grain) is also used in US--corn bread can be a bread made with out yeast (quick bread) and maize.

but in many ethnic bakeries, corn bread is whole grain bread--often multi grain bread. OK, so it not universally used in US or even in NYC, but i realize that in many contexts, corn bread isn't some sort of quick bread or even anadama bread, (corn/wheat/molasses) but a coarse multi grain bread.

and barleycorn? i can think of a half dozen irish bars with that word in their name!--and i think you could find many references to john barleycorn or bars with the word barley corn up and down the eastern seaboard (i have done much drinking in my travels.. so i can't speak for chicago or other cities.. but...

If I understood my teachers correctly, the usage in New Zealand is exactly the same, although they seem to use "maize" to refer only to one specific type of "corn", calling the variety grown to be eaten "sweetcorn", and restricting "maize" to the variety groen for making flour or animal feed.