Now, I'm no true linguaphile, I recognize, but I'm not convinced by this following description of the etymology of orange in today's AWAD post for the word eyas.



This doesn't make sense to me because English is the only langauge that has these articles-- and thus the ability for the word to evolve in the suggested way-- and yet orange is the same in French and German, too. French, of course is un and une, and German is der, die, and das. So while the theory sounds plausible, unless there's some proof that the word migrated first into English and them from there into German and French, I think it's incorrect.

Cheers,
Kenn Sebesta

P.S. French dictionaries indicate that the word came into French from the Italian arancia: http://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/orange

There's also two separate oranges in English. The Dutch Royal house from a town in Southern France which the Romans called Aurasio (today called Orange in French and Aurenja in Occitan) and the citrus fruit. The later seems to have come into European languages via Italian melarancio (from mela 'apple' and arancio 'orange', which the French calqued as pome (d')orenge, from the same French dictionary entry linked to above. But, it seems likely to me, too, that orange is not like adder or newt.

thanks for that info on the royal house of Orange.

NYC has a blue/white/orange flag (from its dutch origins) and there are orange counties (in nystate, and nj) and i always wondered why the was a house of orange.

(since my vague knowledge of european history recognizes there was a conflict with spain and the 'low lands' (and that at some point the netherlands became independant (again--i am presuming) but why they kept a house of Orange? (since i presumed that the county and the fruit shared a common source)

i think i know most of what i know about the conflict between spain and the netherlands from sea shanties, not history books!

And DisneyLand and DisneyWorld are both in Orange County.

yet another oranges to oranges comparison

-joe (orange you glad I didn't say banana) friday

I'm intrigued that this linguistic metamorphosis has a name. We thought we'd invented it in our household when my young son told use he needed an ote for some reason or other. It was very confusing, as we couldn't really figure out what an 'ote' was (as it was unlikely he was asking for an 'oat'). Turns out, it became clear that he was talking about A Note... or... an ote.

Language is such a fascinating world!

Hi Annie,
and kids don't expect adults to make sense so they don't ask for clarification they just assume it's a word they don't know.

yeah, but... Orange counties in states that grow oranges aren't too strange.

Orange counties in NYState or NJ do seem odd.

the orange counties in california and florida (given there spanish origins) might be place name (even if orange is in southern france and not spain..(is there also an orange in spain (there is valencia that share a name with a variety of oranges..)

I tried to by real Seville marmalade in Seville. 15 minutes after asking for marmalade de naranjas I learned that marmalade means any sort of jam in Spanish and that what we call Seville oranges are not called naranjas and that the toast spread made from them has a nother name not at all related to marmalade.
But eventually I got my Mom's souvenir. (I don't even like the stuff)

Back to the OP... (oh noes!)
The French dictionary that goes "all the way" back to Italian does not explain the initial 'n' in Sanskrit, Hindi, Arabic, etc. words for orange. Since oranges came to Europe from India and points further east by way of Persia, all those older Eastern languages seem a rather glaring indicator that there was originally an 'n' or that there's something else mysterious to explain away before you can assume that Italian is the authority.

Back to Slightly Off Topic... (yeah!)
Remember that New York, New York used to be New Amsterdam, New Netherlands and the rulers of the Netherlands hold the title Prince of Orange. Related topic: "Why are carrots orange?" (which I think we've done before).

No noose for the opinionaters?
No norange for the wayward thinker?
No Kings are rulers in the land of Hansje Brinker.
Just Fancy Rulers for a nice decorum
to keep united well-to-doers and the schorem.

(sitting under the orange tree and enjoying there to be)

Excellent rhyme, BranShea, maybe more than excellent. But I don't know exactly who or whom the "schorum" might be but I fear that I might be one of them.

No not really , I think an " ever the gentleman", even an " ever the gentleman crook " would not be classified under "schorem ".
(sorry for a little spelling mistake)

I should have accepted your ten dollar offer, now that I know what it could have bought me.
I could have bought an orange waterproof ladies reversable vest with faux fur, and wouldn't that have been great, but I'm just ten dollars short.

I don't think anyone is denying that the word originated in the East, nor that it lost its initial "n" somewhere along the way. It's just that the explanation is lacking since the change is seen across many languagues, but English is the only one where the pattern "a n..." --> "an ..." exists.

In fairness, it could be argued that in French "ton norange" and "ton orange" are pronounced identically (because of the liason between a terminal consonant and a following vowel) and thus this route from naranga to orange would be plausible. However, since the French dictionaries indicate that the word came from Italian and almost all-- if not all-- indo-European languages have endured a similar change, although the concept is plausible I still rest unconvinced.

Cheers,
Kenn Sebesta

Only a semi-related note: I saw a store sign yesterday that at first glance read "pop corntins".

No,no,no,no, BranShea, I didn't say that my Mama said that I was EVER THE GENTLEMAN, my Mama asked me if I was EVER GONNA BE A GENTLEMAN which is not the same thing.
My Mama always said that I was the slowest pea in her three pea pod and that is why I don't know what a "schorem" or a "schorum" is but I think that it is something bad which is what I am.

And I don't have the ten dollars that I owe you. I sent all my money to a man in Nigeria who needs to raise some money so he can send me some money that was left to me by my rich third cousin who died before I got to meet him.

You can have my orange deer hunting vest if you want. But I warn you...once I wore it to a dance and everybody laughed and said that I was trying to get attention.

I know that I am a disappointment to you and my Mama and everyone.
When I was young I tried to join the army and they said no.

Themilum,
Off topic again, but your ma would have been proud to know that at least you are a good guesser.

schorem: from hebr. sheqorim = bad people.
synonym: gajes (could also go as : ga je 's ; meaning : go on now.( to get back to topic of words plitting )
(What I see a lot here: get your frees ample)

English for schorum : rabble, rifraf (which is other than outre, The Milum !)

Kubark42, I'm not convinced about norange either. Arancia - orange