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I have possibly conflicting information on the origin of the word 'Vatican.' It clearly derives from the name of its location which is "Mons Vaticanus” or Mount Vatican.
Now the origin of the Latin word 'Vaticanus' is either an Etruscan loan word or it has the same root as 'vatic' which means 'oracular.' Or perhaps it is both! After all we do not know the meaning of Etruscan loan words.
Vatican City includes Mons Vaticanus. Mons Vaticanus was either the site of a temple to the goddess Cybele or it was not. There are accounts that support either contention.
It should be no surprise that there were pagan shrines on most of the Seven Hills of Rome at one time or another since Rome was the great center of Paganism which favored 'high places' for its important structures and their accompanying rites.
It should also be no surprise that there is a certain sensitivity to all these Pagan associations and connotations among the followers of the Bishop of Rome, known in some circles as the Pope. Pope I understand means 'father.' The Pope is referred to as the 'Holy Father' so 'Pope' is a familiar short-hand for the full title
Despite a reflex denial of the oracular connotations of the word 'Vatican', it appears appropriate. Consider the 'apostolic succession' from Peter which it is alleged that the Pope enjoys. What is an 'Apostle' except the highest prophetic office of the Christian faith?
The word 'Apostle' I believe is of Greek origin and means 'sent' or 'placed against.' That was the function of the Apostles. They were sent against the Pagan world of the time to testify against it and for the gospel of the Messiah.
The Pope occupies a prophetic office which in Pagan terms is that of a Christian 'soothsayer' who conveys truths about the present and future.
In the writings of the putative founder of the See of Rome we have the following command:
"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." 1 Peter 4:11
If the head of a branch of the Christian religion does not speak oracularly when all his followers should do so, then what are we to think?
Thoughtfully, BraveLad
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Pooh-Bah
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If the head of a branch of the Christian religion does not speak oracularly when all his followers should do so, then what are we to think?
It doesn't mean all the time - one is allowed to order orange juice without saying "thou". 
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Carpal Tunnel
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is an election that takes place in a conclave..
con is often 'with' but what is a clave?
and how is a conclave like an autoclave? (the only other clave i could think of, but i am sure there are more!)
the KEY is in your shoulder...
all below from Merriman Websters:
Main Entry: clav·i·cle
Function: noun
Etymology: French clavicule, from New Latin clavicula, from Latin, diminutive of Latin clavis; akin to Greek kleid-, kleis key, kleiein to close
: a bone of the vertebrate pectoral girdle typically serving to link the scapula and sternum -- called also collarbone
Main Entry: con·clave
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Medieval Latin; Middle French, from Medieval Latin, from Latin, room that can be locked up, from com- + clavis key -- more at CLAVICLE
1 : a private meeting or secret assembly; especially : a meeting of Roman Catholic cardinals secluded continuously while choosing a pope
2 : a gathering of a group or association
Main Entry: au·to·clave
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from aut- + Latin clavis key -- more at CLAVICLE
: an apparatus in which special conditions (as high or low pressure or temperature) can be established for a variety of applications; especially : an apparatus (as for sterilizing) using superheated steam under high pressure
(autoclave can also be uses as verb)
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Why is the subject changed to "the Key to a new pope?" That subject is related to the meaning of "Vatican" only by the Pope connection.
BraveLad,
Still trying to make sense of his environment (vainly it often seems)
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D'accord! But seriously, the context is in the churches of God and in Christian service.
In this context, if all (Christians) are to speak as if speaking the very words of God, then what is the distinction enjoyed by the one who would be the substitute for Christ on earth?
IMHO either there are many fewer or many more legitimate priests than what we find in the Roman Church. In my New Testament, mentions of 'priests' are one of three categories: 1. Unfavorable; 2. Singular as in Christ our great High Priest; or 3. Referring to the universal priesthood of present and future believers.
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Carpal Tunnel
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well i change the subject because my post about a word that is not in common usage, except in the election of a pope. it is an interesting topical word..(or so i thought)
and because i think you are entering murky waters.
religion, like politics, is, in the old fashioned rules of Emily Post and other manner mavin's, not a subject for the dinner table (or for formums like this!) it gets to be emotional--people have strong feeling, and defend their beliefs (as they should!)--and this can lead to arguements.
there are many interesting words.. we can discuss the word priest, vs. minister, vs, reverend, vs. rabbi, vs. elder, vs. any other term for a leader of a religious leader, but discussing the RC church and the notion of all christians 'speaking the word of god', smacks to much, to me, of discussing religions..
i think there are lots of interesting words (Fr.Steve's list of new latin terms is a great addition, the thread on the root meaning of cardinal, my addition of conclave --and other clave words, and many other words associated with religion that can be discussed, with out discussing religion.
I am sure there are some that i won't even think twice about, because i was raised RC and maybe learned the words in my youth, and 'accepted' them unthinkingly. but now, as a thinking person, i might enjoy a new adult understanding of them.
but i think it is important to keep the discussions here to words... and not to religion.
and well, secondly, its rather common for threads to be hijacked.. (and i sort of hijacked) its now up to others to decide which is the more interesting path to pursue.. (or to hijack it again with yet another word that has come to the forefront with the death of the old pope, and the impending election of a new one.)
the context here is always words, not But seriously, the context is in the churches of God and in Christian service.
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Carpal Tunnel
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What I wanna know, if the Pope is the Bishop of Rome and a Cardinal is senior to a bishop and the Pope is selected from among the cardinals, isn't getting elected Pope taking a cut in pay?
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Did you know that 'Bishop' and 'Episcopal' have the same meaning, i.e. overseer, but just took different routes to inclusion in that great ragbin of languages, English?
We have another term in English meaning exactly the same, 'supervisor.' In fact some Protestant denominations use the term supervisor for their version of a bishop.
The fact is that some terms like 'bishop' have histories that make some denominations like the Presbyterians, Baptists and Reform churches avoid them like the plague, despite the fact that no qualification other than age is ever specified for the elder or 'presbyter' in Scripture.
presbuteros (pres-boo'-ter-os); comparative of presbus (elderly); older; as noun, a senior;
The word Father (Pope) as a title is eschewed on Scriptural grounds by some Christians based on the following passage:
Matthew 23:5-11
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
A rose by any other name they say smells as sweet, but this does not seem to hold for titles of religious leaders. What is one to do!? 'Overseer' is a good translation of 'episcopus' (bishop in the King James Version), but has the connotation of a slavemaster, which is exactly antithetical to the attitude of service which should characterize such leaders.
I know that names are sometimes thought to be arbitrary impositions on that which they are to denominate, but equally they may be descriptions, hence care to the origins of the word chosen to name something is advisable IMHO.
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Carpal Tunnel
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OK the idea of bishop and episcopal having the same meaning (something like seat/catherdral) is interesting but when i start seeing scripture quoted.. well i see this thread moving from a discussion about words to a discussion about religion. and thanks, but no thanks brave lad.
you are entitled to your believes, but if you think this board is a place to prostelize, well i will be avoiding you and all you post.. even if you have valuable contributions to make, but they are wrapped up in the word of dog well, i'm not listening.
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I understand your unease, but do not share it. Words about religion are fair game, especially when current events elicit an interest in them. The interest that we feel in a topic is important moreover to learning. A saying of mine is, "Interest strengthens memory." But there is an even more important reason to deal with interesting, controversial, or interesting because controversial words. We use words! At least I do, don't you? I use words among other things to engage in controversy. That in fact was the very origin of rhetoric, to learn how to prevail (persuade) in suits, legislative debates, or any discussion for that matter. So suppose we agree with Samuel Johnson's view of free speech: Every man has a right to speak his mind, and every other man has a right to punch him in the nose for it. The test is martyrdom.At least that is how I remember the quote. And suppose someone has the termerity to advance a controversial opinion and someone disagrees (even disagreeably), what of it? How much courage does it take to disagree when it is via email? and just what is there to fear in a chat forum, a frown emotican?! But did you notice the title of this subsection? "Miscellany!" This is the right venue for things even further out of the main line than comments on a number of religious terms with some veiled religious opinions offered along the way. Your objection to the religious context of a religious term frankly puzzles me. We would try to identify the botanical context of a botanical term would we not?  I regard "hijacking" as impolite and will not engage in it myself. How hard is it to just ignore a thread and start a new one? No more difficult than to cluck your tongue disapprovingly in a response surely. 
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