Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#71447 05/27/02 11:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
W
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
I just searched the files for this expression, and I don't think it's been discussed.

Where does the expression "down pat" come from as in the sentence:

"After practicing for four hours, she had the composition down pat," meaning she could play it flawlessly.

There's the possibility that I've misheard this phrase, but I'll toss it out for either correction or clarification.

WW


#71448 05/27/02 11:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Nope you didn't miss here, to get something down pat is to have internalized it... why i don't know!

i never use it with a say, a single poem, but rather with complicated, yet flexible patterns -- like school schedules.(monday is band for B, dance of E, tuesday is girl scouts, wednesday drop e off for piano, take B to Alergist, Jim will pick up E, after his work, and pick up take out for dinner...) well you get the idea..
or driving stick.. you could get shifting gears down pat! learn how to do it, so you do it with out thinking.. but its not something memorized, like a poem, or piece of music.. well not for me-- it is something flexible (when to shift gears is a perfect example!)


#71449 05/27/02 12:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
This was posted in another site. Seems worth posting here.


The Phrase Finder



Home > Discussion Forum Home

Search the Discussion Forum Archives:


Browse the Archives


Re: pat


Posted by bob on January 14, 19100 at 16:50:41:

In Reply to: Re: pat posted by ESC on January 14, 19100 at 01:29:11:

: : :
: : : this is an assignment for one of my college classes and have not been able to locate anything on the
phrase "down pat" other than what it means. Any help is greatly appreciated.

: : From the "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, 1997):
"stand pat. American poker players in the late 19th century invented this expression to indicate that a
player was satisfied with the original hand dealt to him and would draw no more cards. Where did pat
come from? One theory is that because the word meant 'in a manner that fits or agrees with the purpose
or occasion' or 'incapable of being improved' it was a natural for the poker expression. Another holds that
'stand pat' is a corruption of 'stand pad,' an older English expression meaning 'to sell from a stationary
position' and originally referring to peddlers who remained in a fixed location..."

: : I just realized that you were asking about "down pat." I haven't found that yet. But if you'll look at the
word definition in the first theory, that might help.

: PAT -- From “The Dictionary of Etymology: The Origins of American English Words” by Robert K.
Barnhart (HarperCollins, 1995): “pat2 adv., suitably. 1578, perhaps a special use of pat1 (a light tap), in
the sense of hitting the mark; and thus ‘opportunely,’ ready for any occasion.”

One can speculate (and this is pure speculation) that the origin may well be in poker parlance. Every
poker player knows that feeling when one is dealt a pat hand: you glance at the 5 diamonds you've been
dealt, and it makes a vivid impression. You don't need to glance at it again and again to verify what you
have: you have it down pat.. Of course, amateur poker players give themselves away by behaving
differently when they have one kind of hand versus another. They look at it too often, or not often
enough, they lay it down in fornt of them instead of holding it, etc. (Poker players call these "tells,"
characteristic behaviors that give away a hand's strength.) Naturally, an advanced poker player will
strive to eliminate tells, or skillfully plant false tells to deceive. One way to reach a behavioral
consistency is to spend the same amount of time examining your cards each time, regardless of its
content. To memorize (get down pat) the cards at the same pace, with the same hand movements, with
the same poker face. (I play poker against one fellow who changes his rate of breathing when he gets a
good hand...)
Follow Ups:


http:// phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/2/messages/183.html - last updated: 18 November 2001 - visited 287 times




#71450 05/27/02 02:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
G
old hand
Offline
old hand
G
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
Don't know about "down pat," but "pat down" sounds like a lot more fun!


#71451 05/27/02 02:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
W
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Thanks for your sleuthing, wwh. Cards it is, then, and poker at that.

"Pat down" sounds like a softened version of the "shake down."

WW


#71452 05/27/02 03:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
OOh, can i get in first in line of a pat down?


#71453 05/28/02 02:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
When I was a first-year student in theology, there was a student in my class named Pat. The dean of the school was named John. Pat and John had an arrangement. If he would never use the expression "get it down pat," she would never use the expression "go to the john."




#71454 05/28/02 04:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
M
old hand
Offline
old hand
M
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
Hereabouts "down pat" and "standing pat" are both understood within the context of "a pat hand" meaning "a set hand with no need to draw". An extension of the term into the outer world of anti-gamblenouses seems obvious. Or, if you prefer, a "pat" eventuality. The "pat" is made sonarphorous by a knock or "pat" on the table signaling no draw.



Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 444 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5