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Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
"Enthusiastic newcomer" - what a charming euphemism for "lazy oaf who clumsily rehashes threads for which he was too lazy to look."
The above quote from a posts I just made was reworked. Initially I had written, ""Enthusiastic newcomer" - what a charming euphemism for "lazy oaf who clumsily rehashes threads he was too lazy to look for." My question is this: How do the regular contribotors feel about ending sentences with prepositions? At times, avoiding this gaffe seems to create very stilted phrases. I know that this subject has almost certainly been thrashed already, but then I also know that you would expect nothing less from me. I am genuinely interested to hear views on this subject. My curiosity was aroused, at least partly, by the following list of rules. No doubt many of you have seen it before, but I found it amusing, and so will bore you with it.
Writing Tips
1. Avoid alliteration. Always.
2. Never use a long word when a diminutive one will do.
3. The adverb always follows the verb.
4. Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc.
5. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are unnecessary.
6. Remember to never split an infinitive.
7. Contractions aren't necessary.
8. Foreign words and phrases are not apropos.
9. One should never generalize.
10. Eliminate quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "I hate quotations.
Tell me what you know."
11. Don't be redundant; don't use more words than necessary; it's highly
superfluous.
12. Be more or less specific.
13. One-word sentences? Eliminate.
14. The passive voice is to be avoided.
15. Even if a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.
16. Who needs rhetorical questions?
17. Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
18. Don't never use a double negation.
19. Proofread carefully to see if you words out.
20. A writer must not shift your point of view.
21. And don't start a sentence with a conjunction. (Remember, too, a
preposition is a terrible word to end a sentence with.)
22. Don't overuse exclamation marks!!!!!!!
23. Writing carefully, dangling participles must be avoided.
24. Avoid trendy locutions that sound flaky.
25. Last but not least, avoid cliches like the plague; they're old hat;
seek viable alternatives.
"Nationalism is an infantile disease, the measles of humanity" - Albert Einstein
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
YART!! *<8^)
I think it was Winston Churchill who was the first to put an end to the notion that this was a gaffe when he said "It is a rule up with which we should not put."
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
Thank you.
"Nationalism is an infantile disease, the measles of humanity" - Albert Einstein
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Max, those are fun rules! Thanks!
I have no problem ending a sentence a preposition with.
Years ago, one of my English teachers told me that rule was relaxed.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724 |
I really, really enjoyed the rules. Thanks Max.
I like to stretch the question "How do the regular contributors feel about ending sentences with prepositions?" to ask "How do the regular contributors feel about adhering to rules of grammar."
I used to have the same problem with structure and form as I have with Grammar. A kind of a irritated feeling to have to stick to something someone says is right. But I realised with structure it is the perhaps the easiest way to achieve clarity of expression. And so after having done my own thing and not been very successful I now try to stick to structure, despite my earlier resistance.
But, I still resist grammar. Do you all think the more fussy rules of grammar do in anyway help achieve clarity of expression or it is something someone said we must do to make life more difficult?
As Max has written, sometimes trying to achieve grammar makes the writing very stilted. I would very much like to know opinions on this too...
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Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
> How do the regular contributors feel about adhering to rules of grammar."
I am very torn over this question, Avy. I was brought up to believe that the rules of grammar are not to be tampered with by the likes of me. I do, in fact, try to observe formal grammatical rules, especially when writing formally. (I do not claim to be 100 per cent successful. But I do try.)
However, a number of years of marking essays, the content matter of which is meritorious, but which are often deficient in grammatical probity, has made me revise my opinions a little. I have come to the conclusion that, so long as the meaning is crystal clear, with no possibility of ambiguity, and so long as the aesthetics of the language are not too badly trampled upon, I should no longer look too harshly down my nose at good, intelligent, hard-working students who use prepositions to end sentences with, (or even clauses, like what I've just done) or who feel obliged to sometimes split infinitives. Even the comma, my favourite punctuation mark, may be omitted at times without destroying anything other than my sense of propriety.
I also accept American orthography, so long as it is consistently used. I enjoy the Americanisms that have entered the English language - it would be churlish not to accept the spellings from the same source.
(I've just noticed that the SC has "orthography" as "orthopedic" - some of the writing I read is decidedly pedestrian, so I suppose there is some justice here. And Avy is "awad" - which adds a certain lustre to the soubriquet.)
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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formal v. informal would indeed seem to be an answer; but what constitutes "formal"? for business writing these days it almost seems like wasted effort; there is already so much jargon and careless usage that it comes, nearly, to casting pearls before swine. 
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Posts: 200
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200 |
i think grammar is linked with circumstance. we don't worry about formal grammar so much in fights, drinking down the boozer and so on, but we are more careful in business letters and speeches. in fact there's probably quite a separate grammar for each situation, and learning how to use multiple grammars is a social skill.
"casting pearls before swine" as in using "octopodes" to people who wouldn't know the word, is just as much a gaff as the opposite, say, swearing in a job interview.
recently, for the first time, i've been in a position where i have to use japanese. the levels of politeness are very difficult, but i realised we have the same thing in english, just in japanese it's all tabulated.
more important than grammar rules, surely, is the ability to connect with your audience, whoever they might be.
after all, no one dies if you split an infinitive, so if it sounds better to you, why avoid it because someone decided it was a rule?
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724 |
>more important than grammar rules, surely, is the ability to connect with your
audience"
That is what I think. But to do this I have had to bend over backwards. I wrote once for a group of people who wrote in way that was very difficult to read, perhaps because the are highly academic, intelligent people and not so much because they are bad writers. I had to write for them. I thought to write with too much clarity would be to insult their intelligence. But to write their way would mean to negate all I had learnt about good writing. The deciding factor was connecting with audience. The audience was used to their writing style, which if I copied I would connect better. So, I worked hard - to write badly. I wrote and rewrote to make long sentences, use passive voice, generalisations and difficult words where an easy one would have done. What I produced made me cry, but they thought it was fine… (strange world).
>and learning how to use multiple grammars is a social skill.
I guess that was the lesson.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460 |
< casting pearls before swine>
I say, these pearls get around don't they! If they're not at somebody's throat -- strangling or garotting -- they're being cast at pigs. Eat your heart out, Babe!
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