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odyssey
mentor
harpy
argus
rurban
meld
slimsy
squiggle
weeny
guesstimate
contraption
scissile
conge
nimiety
congeries
cosset
enchiridion
attar
dentulous
cathect
cerebrate
callithump
darkle
esthesia
factotum
nescience
portal-to-portal
risibility
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In reply to:
odyssey
mentor
...etc.
Just by coincidence I happen to be studying the Odyssey in preparation for a freshman English class this fall.
I must confess: I was not particularly excited about the Odyssey when I was a freshman back in the sixties. I have always enjoyed reality-based works that deal with apparent life more than ones that deal with gods and strange creatures. It's just a matter of taste and how one's mind is set up. Watership Down was an exception--but, then again, one did read about rabbits there, although they spoke.
But--and this is a huge 'but'--this time around the Odyssey, I love the work. It could be the translation I'm reading, an award-winning one, by Robert Fagles, or it could be that I'm finally old enough to ferret out the huge, satisfying chunks of Reality that are ready for mining in the work itself of which I couldn't appreciate for all the mystical material that got in the way for me.
In other words, reality abounds in Fagles' translation.
I've been surprised that Athena took so many forms of mortals in just these first three books I've read out of the twenty-four--even assuming the form of Telemachus himself while rounding up a sailing crew for him. She assumes the form of "Mentor" most often so far, along with the forms of Telemachus, Mentes--and one of an eagle. I'm expecting her to take other forms throughout the rest of the work.
She's consistently referred to as 'bright-eyed,' 'flashing-eyed,' 'her eyes afire,'...and so on in the first three books. In fact, most of the key figures are referred to with adjectives to flesh them out, such as 'red-haired Menelaus.' And I find that way of speaking holds a charm in the tale. Wouldn't it be something if we all referred to each other with adjectivial attributes? Certainly Faldage does when he refers to 'the lovely Anastrophic.' But not too many do so as a matter of course. I do think of 'the great and powerful tsuwm.' But that's about as far as my regular thoughts on the adjective side of ourselves here on AWAD go, for example.
One other thing: There is terrific focus on Telemachus in the first three--and I believe the fourth coming up for my reading this afternoon. Odysseus, although the subject, is pretty much out of the picture in terms of direct action that's going on. The high school editions leave out these first books, and it's a pity since Telemachus' story is one of coming-of-age that I think would be a great draw into the tale at large. It's a pity that the high school lit books--and I have two from which to choose for the course--begin with Odysseus' release from Calypso's island, much, much later in the work.
Oh, well. I'm just thinking out loud...
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Dear WW: It is one of my failings that I can over-react to
absurdities in a story, and let them spoil the story for me.
The Greeks were the world's worst male chauvinists, and I just can't imagine them caring enough about any woman to fight twenty years about it. And it is proposterous to say that Odysseus took so long to get home. And the idea of sacrificing a daughter just to get a favorable wind.
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Well, wwh, you will be pleased to know that I read in Fagles' translation tonight about Telemachus' visit to Menelaus' home. He meets Helen there--the initial cause of all the following disasters--and in Fagles' translation, she refers to herself as a 'whore'--no joke. Ha! Well, not exactly. She says she was once a 'whore.' I read the section to my daughter, and she was pretty much shocked by Fagles' word choice there. I just got a good laugh out of my daughter's reaction when I read the passage and didn't prepare her for it--just to see the full impact of the word coming out of Helen's mouth.
Oh, what the heck. Here's the passage:
[Helen, speaking about Telemachus, who has at this point not identified himself to Menelaus and Helen]: "To the life he's like the son of great Odysseus-surely he's Telemachus! The boy that hero left a babe in arms at home when all you Achaeans fought at Troy, launchng your headlong battles just for my sake, shameless whore that I was."
I wonder whether the other famous translators also used the word whore?
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The Greek word is kunopes, literally dog-eyed. Shameless bitch? This site gives you the ability to compare different translations of a passage: http://www.robotwisdom.com/jaj/homer/odyssey.htmlBingley
Bingley
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well, i remember reading some time in the distant past, that whore/prostitute/slut, are really constructs of the modern world. Christianity's views on sex and feminism have a lot to do with sexually open women being held in such low regard. they weren't exactly exalted in ancient times, but its seems that prostitution had less of stigma. as it tend to still have today in Japan-- and geisha's, not prostititutes, but also not renowned for chasity! are held in high regard.
there are many different terms that were used to signify a sexual active woman, including 'she-wolf'; so romus and romulus, were suckled not by an animal, but by a woman who was a what we in english would call a 'suckling nurse'-- who perhaps had a child out of wedlock, and maybe worked in the sex industry.
Which is not to say that my name sake was woman of sterling character. she left her husband and eloped with another man(his supposed friend) for a sexual jaunt, not carring a wit about the consiquences.
she was a valuable 'commodity'-- she had been blessed by the gods with great beauty, and she was, as a daughter of a god, a demigod herself.
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In reply to:
there are many different terms that were used to signify a sexual active woman, including 'she-wolf'; so romus and romulus, were suckled not by an animal, but by a woman who was a what we in english would call a 'suckling nurse'-- who perhaps had a child out of wedlock, and maybe worked in the sex industry.
From Plutarch's Life of Romulus:
Near this place grew a wild fig-tree, which they called Ruminalis, either from Romulus (as it is vulgarly thought), or from ruminating, because cattle did usually in the heat of the day seek cover under it, and there chew the cud; or, better, from the suckling of these children there, for the ancients called the dug or teat of any creature ruma, and there is a tutelar goddess of the rearing of children whom they still call Rumilia, in sacrificing to whom they use no wine, but make libations of milk. While the infants lay here, history tells us, a she- wolf nursed them, and a woodpecker constantly fed and watched them; these creatures are esteemed holy to the god Mars, the woodpecker the Latins still especially worship and honor. Which things, as much as any, gave credit to what the mother of the children said, that their father was the god Mars: though some say that it was a mistake put upon her by Amulius, who himself had come to her dressed up in armor.
Others think that the first rise of this fable came from the children's nurse, through the ambiguity of her name; for the Latins not only called wolves lupae, but also women of loose life; and such an one was the wife of Faustulus, who nurtured these children, Acca Larentia by name. To her the Romans offer sacrifices, and in the month of April the priest of Mars makes libations there; it is called the Larentian Feast.
The Latin dictionary at Perseus says for lupa: she-wolf, prostitute, vile woman, name of a dog. Lupanar is brothel.
Bingley
Bingley
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ok. total Roman/Greek mythology newbie here: what does this stuff mean? is Plutarch just going off on writing some stories? is there some metaphorical point to it all? (sadly, or maybe happily, I won't again be at the computer until late tonight, so this could be fun...) 
formerly known as etaoin...
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Plutarch included Theseus and Romulus in his Parallel Lives. Of course not much was definitely known about their lives even then, just legends. So he reports the legends. One popular way then of accounting for legends you didn't believe was finding (or making up) a folk-etymological explanation for them.
Bingley
Bingley
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Bingley,
I'm home very late from a great day with my daughter and have just checked in to the site you provided. Wow! Thank you very, very much for pasting it here--it's one I'm sure I'll spend hours with this summer.
WW
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