Well, a loose cannon would be one that is cut a bit too large for the caliber shell required, and, in the old days, they would have to employ the ramrod rather emphatically in order to tighten the shell against the charge...? sounds good to me!

And, of course, the artillery units who employed the largest caliber cannon balls were considered to be the "big shots".

a loose cannon would be one that is cut a bit too large for the caliber shell required

And I thought a loose cannon was one not securely fastened to the deck; one that moves about unpredictably and dangerously after being fired, causing as much potential harm to the gun crew as to their intended target.

And I thought a loose cannon was one not securely fastened to the deck; one that moves about unpredictably and dangerously after being fired, causing as much potential harm to the gun crew as to their intended target.

Uh, Faldo...didn't ya see the twinkle in me eye when I was a-tellin' the aboveforementioned yarn?

the twinkle in me eye

Uh-huh.

Was interested to hear today that there is a link between the expressions "big shot" and "loose woman". - STALES

FALDAGE: (post edit apology, mw) said "cannons" in whiteout.

One is a bore with big balls and one balls with a big bore.

Honest Jackie, I don't like this kind of stuff. I just wanted to try to clear this space for erudite studies about words. ()

both are cannons

There you go again. I din't say nothin of the sort!

Beware of the left hand thread. And tight is preferable to loose.

Bill:

In my mind, a cannon has no rifling in the barrel. They were basically smooth-bores, I thought. I looked up cannon in the OED and found this: . A piece of ordnance; a gun or fire-arm of a size which requires it to be mounted for firing. (The leading current sense.) The following varieties are mentioned in the 16th-17th c.: Canon Royall, height 8 1/2 in.; shot 66 lbs. Canon, height 8 in.; shot 60 lbs. Canon Sarpentine, height 7 1/2 in.; shot 53 lbs. Bastard Canon, height 7 in.; shot 41 lbs. Demy Canon, height 6 1/2 in.; shot 30 lbs. Canon Petro, height 6 in.; shot 24 lbs.


The various sizes are of interest, particularly the canon petro. I wondered if it has any relationship to a petard, but apparently it doesn't. There's no definition in the OED for petro other than as a combining name for rock or petroleum, but petard comes back as having derived from the french word for fart, peter, with one of those accenty things over the first e.

I also looked up rifle; the first use of that word with relation to a gunbarrel is 1750, the middle of the 18th century, which lends some confirmation to my supposition that cannon is an earlier invention and was essentialy a smooth-bore.

TEd

>was essentially a smooth-bore.

Something that can also be said of just about any Tony Blair oration.

teD, they began rifling the barrels of cannon in the US during the recent unpleasantness (Civil War, that is).

Alrighty then - enough's enough.

Thanks all for your efforts, the q was harder than I thought.

To quote myself, "Any guesses as to what the common thread is?

The answer that question is "cotton".

As for the link between the two phrases, I'm told (and my sources are fallible) that both phrases arose in South East USA - cotton country.

So the story goes, when an important person sailed into the cotton ports the ship they were aboard fired one of its cannon. The bigger the bang the more important the personage. Hence "big shot".

During the Civil War there were numerous Southern society women widowed. With a need to generate an income but without a bread winner, many sought employment at the cotton mills. They were well used to turning themselves out in full corsets, but soon found these too restrictive for mill work. By loosening their corsets they were better able to do the job expected of them. The same women were obviously keen to catch themselves a wealthy mill owner and therefore were the subject of derision by their more 'common' co-workers. No doubt the notion of loose-corseted women rapidly evolved into something more lurid among the worker folk.

stales

I seem to remember in the first of t;he Godfather series Mario Puzo mentioned early Italian
mobster leaders carried "pezo de novante" - ninety calibre pistols. Never saw name of
maker. But ninety calibre was indeed a "big shot".(PS - I'm unsure of spelling)

"cotton"

Uh-huh.

cotton? good i haven't been guessing

I think someone is having us on!

having us on

I found nothing about the origin of the phrase "loose woman" in any of my reputable word and phrase origin fave sites, probably because it doesn't really need an explanation. The loose corset theory sounds like a folk etymology. Refering to someone of loose moral standards seems pretty upfront to me.

The late origin of "big shot" would seem to argue against any cannon salute explanation. Is there any evidence that cannon salutes were ever used for anyone other than a head of state or other highly placed statesman or military type? And even then, it's not the size of the shot but the number of guns fired that denotes rank.

And even then, it's not the size of the shot but the number of guns fired that denotes rank.

Must...resist...temptation...