...as in, "I never met a YART I didn't like."

Which illustrates the issue quite nicely. Should we articleulate alert: neologism YART or not? It's an acronym, a phrase rather than a noun. It contains its own article; isn't calling it "a YART" like talking of "the hoi polloi"?

Is it appropriate for a bunch of word fans to be saying "This is a YART" or "Maybe it's just another YART but..."?


 

When AWADtalk was new, and the number of participants small, resentment of repeat
of previously adequately discussed topics was understandable. But now it is unreasonable
to expect new members to search for previous discussions. There are too few posts to
warrant stigmatizing repetition. We need all the new talent we can get.
YART me no YARTS.
Incidentally, in looking up "dunce" the other day, I learned that the cliché about scholasticists
debating how many angels could dance on the point of a pin is a carnard coined by the father
of Disreali, and actually spoke of point of a needle.

Too late, Knut. I suspect the articleulation of YART is an accomplished fate, in much the same way that almost everybody I know speaks of their PIN number.

ignoring Dr. Bill's standard anti-YART screed, and as perpetrator of the offending term, I stand on shaky ground and state that you shouldn't add an article if you tend to expand it upon seeing it; but rather if you tend to see it as a word unto itself; i.e., yart; then it takes an article just as does any other acronymic noun (not able to think of another example containing an article at the moment, but you see what I mean).

Dear tsuwm: I still remember how shitty some oldtimers were to me when I first
joined. You were part of that.

...almost everybody I know speaks of their PIN number.


Ah yes, the PIN number ... (throwing-the-hands-up-in-the-air-in-dismay-defeat-and-resignation-emoticon)

Harrumph®!

... I say in the future *we should drop the "Y"... come to think of it, it'll clarify a few things.

Dear musick: I can't bitch about 'art" so long as it is not an acronym.

how many angels could dance on the point of a pin

Picking nits : isn't that "dance on the *head of a pin?"
At least it's how I learned it!
The answer? "As many as want to."
And as to YARTs : How many can bring up a YART ?
As many as want to.
Sometimes old times are best forgotten, Bill!

Okay, metayarts are in. There appear to be three forms of the word yart, the noun (a yart, yarts), the adjective (a yarting thread) and the verb (weak, intransive & regular; to yart).

If we are also going to have metayarts - that is, yarts about yarts, then we need to define exactly what they are and how they can best be recognised (metayart recognition), how they should be represented (metayart notation) and how metayart data can be communicated between competing proprietary yarting software systems. This will probably result in further extensions to XML.

To do this successfully, we need to form a committee of representatives from all manufacturers of yarting software who can then argue the toss at expensive meetings held in expensive places, all funded by their employers of course.

After a year or two of such well-paid argument, the representatives will emerge tired and happy with a metayarting standard which will then be submitted to the OMG (Object Management Group) for ratification. The OMG will then subsume the new standard into the latest version of UML (Unified Modelling Language) and issue an amendment to the UML standard. The new metayarting standard will be called the UYS (Unified Yarting Standard) and will be issued to all yarters.

It will then be expected that all yart manufacturers will adhere to the standard to allow easy transfer of metayart data from yart system to yart system.

Sound like a plan to you guys?

Sound like a plan to you guys?

Sort of yart gratia yartis? Sounds like a very good plan. It also sounds like you would be the very model of a BOFH.

Anyway you like it except unanimous.

Maybe we should just sidestep the issue entirely, simply declare something to be a yart with the redundant designation "old yart !", use its acronym, and let it go at that...

(starting-to-be-sorry-I-brought-the-whole-thing-up-in-the-first-place-emoticon)

There are so few posts, and so few oldtimers, it is simply insult to necomers to call YART.
No need to comment.

hear hear dr.bill i know you guys may have discussed many points before but to us newbies it is a lot easier to learn through dynamic debate, i like awad because it is a relevant contemporary discussion site, not an archive.

"...it is simply insult to necomers to call YART."

I say we ask each newcomer what is insulting to them as they *come.

dodyskin - But it is an archive, as well. For anyone (like Faldage ) who needs some stinkin' rules... here's the one that nobody seems to be unanimous about:

A 'yart' call should be accompanied by the relevant link to the archival post... it kinda takes the edge off of the assignee and the assignor. (Yeah, it stinks)

A 'yart' call should be accompanied by the relevant link to the archival post... it kinda takes the edge off of the assignee and the assignor.

See, how we're starting to see metayart data definitions coming at us. Keep it up, Muzak!

And the self-proclaimed parent of the YART gave a splendid example of his treatment
of newcomers, when he caused highlord to delete his first post by sneering that
Highlord was asking us to do his homework for him. That's just what we do not need.

To give some perspective to the bile emanating from wwh, I happen to know the first person accused of yarting, and it didn't upset him in the slightest. The ability to laugh at oneself is a great gift, as is the ability to get over petty slights. Maybe you should try it one day, wwh.

Keep it up, Muzak!

But Captain, that wood take research and that duzn't sound very artistic... though your modeling the clothes of a BOFH (as sjm so accurately uncloaked) is setting a trend.

A 'yart' call should be accompanied by the relevant link to the archival post... it kinda takes the edge off of the assignee and the assignor.

My hand's up and my head's nodding, FWIW

I like the occasional bit of thread resurrection achieved by adding new posts to an old thread, too - at least where the old thread isn't too huge. A link to a past thread doesn't have to be taken as in any way fobbing off people or as suggesting the subject has been exhausted.

The thing is this place does have a history, and it's full of goodies. And I'm as happy providing links to AWAD as to external sites. Why should I not be?

As to the errrm meta information, well, I only found out what *rimshot meant about a week ago, by doing an AWADtalk Search for "rimshot" and "mean" (I think). No problem - David (dxb) had asked the same question not very long ago. YART has been defined so many times, I feel sure I could do the same with that word. Knowing how to Search is the thing then, but - let's face it - that's a generally useful Web skill rather than an imposition. There's gold in them thar Searches.

Do Max Q's (and Jo's) helpful hints still exist somewhere?

I had never come across "BOFH" before this thread [and don't find it on a search of AWAD either]. To placate my ingorance -- oops, I meant my curiosity -- and maybe to save others the time and trouble, I did a Google search and came up with:

"Simon Travaglia is the author of the famous Bastard Operator From Hell (BOFH) humor strip".

Is this what you were referring to, or is there another meaning still?

"Simon Travaglia is the author of the famous Bastard Operator From Hell (BOFH) humor strip".

That is indeed the BOFH I had in mind. Like CapK, Travaglia is a Kiwi, ex-pat I think.

Yep! Here's the latest episode.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/27117.html

...and, yep I'm sure there are still other meanings.

Dear musick: I enjoyed BOFH, but what is 'shufty"?

http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-shu1.htm

Just a guess!

Dear musick: my compliments to Eric Partridge, but I'd like to see him use a shuftiscope
on a case of diarrhea. He might get an eyeful.

Like CapK, Travaglia is a Kiwi, ex-pat I think

But I'm sure he's already spoken for, sjm.

But I'm sure he's already spoken for, sjm.

May the hooks of a thousand lines pierce your tyres.

May the hooks of a thousand lines pierce your tyres.

May all fifty million sheep jump once on the spot, and your islands sink into the sea.

Speaking of... Today's wwftd is "habromania". Y'all suppose tsuwm reads this thang sometimes?

"Reality distorts my sense of television." - Zippy the Pinhead

That's what happens when you take a day off...