vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ

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#187631 - 11/03/09 09:55 PM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: Faldage]
latishya enthusiast Registered: 11/24/07 Posts: 387 Loc: कहीं &...	Originally Posted By: Faldage Well, I just guess I'll have to define it my own self: Negative harmony is the requirement that if a verb is negated in a sentence then either the subject or the object or both must also be negated, Examples English - I ain't got no money Spanish - No hay nada 'There isn't nothing.' Russian - Я не знаю. Я ничего никогда не знаю. 'I don't know. I don't never know nothing.' So the French "ne ... pas" would be another example?
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#187632 - 11/03/09 11:05 PM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: Faldage]
Jackie Carpal Tunnel Registered: 03/15/00 Posts: 10392 Loc: Louisville, Kentucky	I can't believe I coined the term Well, apparently you did--congratulations! And you are perfectly entitled to define it yourself, which you did exactly in accordance with what I thought you meant!
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#187635 - 11/04/09 01:02 AM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: latishya]
zmjezhd Pooh-Bah Registered: 08/13/05 Posts: 2437 Loc: R'lyeh	So the French "ne ... pas" would be another example? I'll let Faldo answer the question as it's his term, but I must address the French constructions: pas < Latin passus 'step'; just like rien < res 'thing'. Basically a positive word becoming a negative one. Good is bad, up is down, etc.
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#187636 - 11/04/09 01:40 AM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: zmjezhd]
latishya enthusiast Registered: 11/24/07 Posts: 387 Loc: कहीं &...	Originally Posted By: zmjezhd So the French "ne ... pas" would be another example? I'll let Faldo answer the question as it's his term, but I must address the French constructions: pas < Latin passus 'step'; just like rien < res 'thing'. Basically a positive word becoming a negative one. Good is bad, up is down, etc. sorry i am a little confused. i was asking not about the etymology of pas but if the French use of two negative elements is similar to the other examples. from the little french I know I believe that both "ne" and "pas" are negatives now, so that would be a 'double negative', no? I think i am getting beyond my ability to understand or express here.
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#187638 - 11/04/09 02:18 AM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: latishya]
zmjezhd Pooh-Bah Registered: 08/13/05 Posts: 2437 Loc: R'lyeh	i was asking not about the etymology of pas but if the French use of two negative elements is similar to the other examples. from the little french I know I believe that both "ne" and "pas" are negatives now, so that would be a 'double negative', no? Yes, today they are a double negative. I was just rhapsodizing on their etymologies. Pas started out as a non-negative.
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#187640 - 11/04/09 02:56 AM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: zmjezhd]
latishya enthusiast Registered: 11/24/07 Posts: 387 Loc: कहीं &...	Originally Posted By: zmjezhd i was asking not about the etymology of pas but if the French use of two negative elements is similar to the other examples. from the little french I know I believe that both "ne" and "pas" are negatives now, so that would be a 'double negative', no? Yes, today they are a double negative. I was just rhapsodizing on their etymologies. Pas started out as a non-negative. Thank you. I appreciate the clarification.
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#187642 - 11/04/09 06:48 AM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: zmjezhd]
Faldage Carpal Tunnel Registered: 12/01/00 Posts: 12517	Originally Posted By: zmjezhd Pas started out as a non-negative. Which, of course, is all the peevologist proponents of the etymological fallacy need to claim it's not an example of negative harmony. Speaking of negative harmony. surely there must be a Proper Linguistic Term for it. It's not like it isn't a feature of many languages.
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#187650 - 11/04/09 10:28 AM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: Faldage]
zmjezhd Pooh-Bah Registered: 08/13/05 Posts: 2437 Loc: R'lyeh	Proper Linguistic Term Sure, how about negative concord or multiple negation? See Wikipedia entry for double negative or The cameleontic nature of French ni: Negative coordination in a negative concord language).
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#187723 - 11/10/09 10:18 PM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: Faldage]
Jackie Carpal Tunnel Registered: 03/15/00 Posts: 10392 Loc: Louisville, Kentucky	It's not like it isn't a feature of many languages.
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#187726 - 11/11/09 06:25 AM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: Jackie]
Faldage Carpal Tunnel Registered: 12/01/00 Posts: 12517	A) I thought I'd posted this a week ago, but: D'oh! Negative concord! Of course! and 2) Originally Posted By: Jackie It's not like it isn't a feature of many languages. That's not quite the same thing. Yeah, there's two negatives in there but they're not supporting each other. It's like the difference between a) I couldn't fail to disagree with you less. and ii) I don't like to have to kill nobody without they ain't no chance of no gold in it for me.
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