#187511 - 10/29/09 07:21 AM
Machiavellian
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 3387
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
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In his little book "The Prince" Machiavelli's purpose was to describe what he thought was the ideal Prince . A sort of guide to be of use for rulers, dedicated to Lorenzo Il Magnifico of Florence. It's a pity that the definition for 'machiavellian' has become: Characterized by cunning, deception, and expediency.
Of the described qualities a good ruler should have the capital one one is 'virtue' ( virtu ), which means strenght, justness of descision and more.., other than the meaning we now give to the word. It's a very sympathetic and readable book in which he very clearly describes the needed components for a well ruled state.
( among which also cunning, deception and expediency)
At the same time it gives an interesting image of the contemporary ( High Renaissance ) political background situation; Kings, City States and Popes.
We had a thread on 'virtue', but I can't find it.
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#187518 - 10/29/09 02:18 PM
Re: Machiavellian
[Re: kah454]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 2270
Loc: R'lyeh
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Cesare BorgiaCesare and Leonardo da Vinci were fast friends. My favorite quote about Cesare is from Nietzsche's Antichrist: To attack at the critical place, at the very seat of Christianity, and there enthrone the more noble values -- that is to say, to insinuate them into the instincts, into the most fundamental needs and appetites of those sitting there . . . I see before me the possibility of a perfectly heavenly enchantment and spectacle : -- it seems to me to scintillate with all the vibrations of a fine and delicate beauty, and within it there is an art so divine, so infernally divine, that one might search in vain for thousands of years for another such possibility; I see a spectacle so rich in significance and at the same time so wonderfully full of paradox that it should arouse all the gods on Olympus to immortal laughter -- Cesare Borgia as Pope! . . . Am I understood? . . . Well then, that would have been the sort of triumph that I alone am longing for today -- : by it Christianity would have been swept away! -- What happened? A German monk, Luther, came to Rome. This monk, with all the vengeful instincts of an unsuccessful priest in him, raised a rebellion against the Renaissance in Rome. . . . Instead of grasping, with profound thanksgiving, the miracle that had taken place: the conquest of Christianity at its capital -- instead of this, his hatred was stimulated by the spectacle. A religious man thinks only of himself. -- Luther saw only the corruption of the papacy at the very moment when the opposite was becoming apparent: the old corruption, the peccatum originale, Christianity itself, no longer occupied the papal chair! Instead there was life! Instead there was the triumph of life! Instead there was a great Yes to all lofty, beautiful and daring things! . . . And Luther restored the church: he attacked it. . . . The Renaissance -- an event without meaning, a great futility! -- Ah, these Germans, what they have not cost us! Futility -- that has always been the work of the Germans. -- The Reformation; Leibniz; Kant and so-called German philosophy; the war of "liberation"; the Reich -- every time a futile substitute for something that once existed, for something irrecoverable . . . These Germans, I confess, are my enemies: I despise all their uncleanliness in concept and valuation, their cowardice before every honest Yes and No. For nearly a thousand years they have tangled and confused everything their fingers have touched; they have on their conscience all the half-way measures, all the three-eighths-way measures, that Europe is sick of, -- they also have on their conscience the uncleanest variety of Christianity that exists, and the most incurable and indestructible -- Protestantism. . . . If mankind never manages to get rid of Christianity the Germans will be to blame. . . .
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#187551 - 11/01/09 10:51 AM
Re: Machiavellian
[Re: BranShea]
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stranger
Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 4
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Virtù and Fortuna are the two pillars of Machiavelli's thesis. Virtù is translated in many different ways. "Power" or "strength of character" perhaps come closest; but the moral implication of virtue clearly is missing. Fortuna, usually translated as "fortune" (or sometimes "luck"), is not out of our control. You are presented with circumstances and the opportunity to alter them; i.e., you make your own luck.
"I think it may be true that Fortune governs half more or less of our actions, but that even so she leaves the other half more or less in our power to control."
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#187560 - 11/01/09 05:44 PM
Re: Machiavellian
[Re: Argent]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 12381
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#187585 - 11/02/09 11:51 AM
Re: Machiavellian
[Re: kah454]
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old hand
Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 830
Loc: Land of Flat River
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That's a strong, sharp oration. Yet I doubt if, had Cesare Borgia not died of an unfortunate illness the outcome would have been that different. There were too many forces involved. Henry VIII had for personal, more vital reasons a motive to favor Protestantism and oppose the Vatican. The Netherlands had much to gain by it in their fight against The Spanish. And more than I can up with may have been important. ( quite a quote !)
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